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SURROGACY CONSULTATION ENDS ON FRIDAY 11 OCTOBER - PLEASE SUBMIT A RESPONSE [Edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

181 replies

howonearthdidwegethere · 01/10/2019 21:33

The Law Commission's consultation on surrogacy ends on 11 October. Please consider submitting a response. Needn't be long:

www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/surrogacy/

If you're not sure how to respond (the main document is 502 pages long!), there are already two great submissions you can draw on:

This one from nia, the VAWG charity run by Karen Ingala Smith:

www.niaendingviolence.org.uk/perch/resources/surrogacy-consultation-response-october-2019.pdf

This one from Nordic Model Now:

nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/15/the-law-commissions-surrogacy-consultation-how-to-bamboozle-through-a-dangerous-new-law/

OP posts:
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9years · 09/10/2019 09:14

Fanny in view of the increased risk of preeclampsia in surrogate pregnancies (especially with donor eggs/multiples) I think it’s worth emphasising the long term consequences of this on the health of surrogates.
These would be a three to four times risk of hypertension, double the risk of heart disease and stroke, increased risk of diabetes. This according to a preeclampsia charity.
Those claiming that the adults in the arrangements are aware of all the risks are probably exaggerating.

FannyCann · 09/10/2019 08:15

Ooh well said Chatty
I will quote you in my final email comments!
Thank you.

ChattyLion · 09/10/2019 07:50

Thanks for the link the WPUK response-it is really good. I am so happy that WPUK have responded, that makes it harder for the Law Commission to sideline women’s voices once women’s groups are involved too.

As WPUK point out, it does feel that when you read the 25 page ‘summary‘ document, very shocking that the one-sided pro-surrogacy views are all literally quoted like endorsements alongside the Law Commission’s own proposals, saying how good these ideas are. Hmm where is the neutrality and the objectivity?
Plus the LC use ‘gender’ when they mean ‘sex’ in their documents which is quite telling politically. Hmm)

It feels like people (well, men) who seem to know little about this complex, contentious area, or who perhaps were politically motivated in a specific direction around surrogacy, just went to off the lobby groups and let them draft away.

It’s not hard to imagine that actually happening, because this area is difficult and complicated and these groups had already won the voting system that had chosen the Law Commission to cover this topic of surrogacy in the first place, by making a big response- so the Law Commission already knew which groups would have a clear position that they would want them to follow.

But is that how the UK wants to recommend national law reform on massively socially contentious subjects though? What do the Law Commission think their job we pay them for actually is?

Do they know that they are not a political think tank funded by party donors or businesses or lobby groups?
Do they understand that they are not free to come up with their own independent, partisan recommendations based on lobbying or on their own political beliefs?

They are a public sector organisation and regulatory capture is completely unacceptable. These are all of our institutions. The law commission are publicly funded by taxpayers to investigate ideas for legal reform which affect all of us. So who is running this show?

The LC’s recommendations need to be absolutely scrupulously evidence-based and unbiased, based on having developed a deep knowledge of the topic over the years of the project, which means speaking to all sides of the issue.

As WPUK note, they’ve more or less excluded women and mothers and women bringing up kids, apart from a few who are also willing surrogates. Which doesn’t even, obviously, cover the views of all surrogates.

It’s a classic case of a lack of diversity in thought and representation in action.

AugustL · 09/10/2019 00:58

This is hard. I don't even understand the questions...! Using Nordic model answers. But want to add in my own thoughts

"We provisionally propose that, in England and Wales, the court should be placed under a duty to consider whether to make an order awarding the intended parents parental responsibility at the first directions hearing in the proceedings. "

What does this mean?
"at the first directions hearing in the proceedings"

Is this about the "intended parents" automatically being the legal parents?

AugustL · 09/10/2019 00:22

I'm going to attempt to do this now, or at least start.

FannyCann · 08/10/2019 22:40

That's an excellent submission. I think the law Commission are going to be surprised to find their proposals don't meet with the unanimous approval they expected.

Also very pleased to see they picked up on a certain FOI. Wink

OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 22:15

Thanks How I've shared it here too

Famous men and surrogacy www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3708724-Famous-men-and-surrogacy

howonearthdidwegethere · 08/10/2019 21:25

Woman's Place UK have just published their submission:

womansplaceuk.org/2019/10/08/wpuk-submission-to-law-commission-consultation-on-surrogacy-reform/

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 21:21

Excellent Sabrina.

Once you turn 18 you can get a tattoo, have a legal alcoholic drink, sell a baby...

All very normal things for impressionable teenagers...and all before the brain matures at 25.

SabrinasCat · 08/10/2019 21:10

Thanks OhHolyJesus andFannyCann

I downloaded the Nordic Model word document and personalised a few answers that I felt strongly about. Mostly around the age of the surrogate. Sweet lord, are they really suggesting an 18 year old teenager has the mental capacity and life experience to rent their body and sell their baby?

Anyway, it didn’t take as long as I thought.

It’s worth doing.

OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 16:05

Jesus Christ

I've just got to the bit about payments - they invite views on payments being reduced if the mother miscarries...

Oh but wait, if it is the first trimester, the second trimester or some later stage

Is this is what is has come to - pregnancy per hour? Per day? Per month? Per trimester?

We really are just walking incubators.

FannyCann · 08/10/2019 13:51

Re posting some advice I posted earlier in the thread if this is helpful

SabrinasCat

You can use Nordic Model Now ten minute download to respond.

https://nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/30/how-to-respond-to-the-uk-surrogacy-consultation-in-10-easy-minutes/

Or just scroll through and answer a few questions.

42 Proposals to lift the ban on advertising.Young women will be targeted for their eggs or to be surrogate mothers.

65 Minimum age of 18 for a surrogate (and also 64 minimum age 18 for commissioning parent of surrogate baby. Who would be funding this I ask?) Do you have a teenage daughter? Ask her what she thinks about becoming a surrogate mother at 18. My daughter thinks young women that age should be planning careers and going to university. And also that they are still young enough to deserve protection from adults who may seek to exploit or coerce them.

71 No maximum number of surrogate pregnancies a woman can undertake. Even dogs have more protection in law in the UK. Licensed dog breeders limited to six litters from a bitch and the Kennel club won't register puppies after four litters.

79 Compensation for pain and inconvenience of childbirth and complications. The NMN answers to this were contributed to by a GP with an interest in obstetrics and gynaecology.

80 How should a surrogate mother's family be compensated should she die as a result of the pregnancy. What price a woman's life?

94,95 are concerned with easing the way to bring a baby home from abroad for surrogacy tourists.
At a time when countries like India, Thailand and Cambodia have had to ban surrogacy to protect the populace from abuses and exploitation by rich westerners seeking uteruses for hire it is shameful that this country should be seeking to make it easier.
Imo anyone returning from abroad with a baby should be prosecuted for people trafficking.

107 Finally gets round to considering if there are any issues for the health service. GP added to this answer as well on NMN version.

118 is basically any other business.
Eg No mention of egg donation

I haven't mentioned earlier questions which are key proposals, which seek to change the way Commissioning parents acquire legal parenthood. Check out the Nordic Model Now answers to get more understanding of these proposals.

OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 10:19

No one has the time Sabrina and they make them deliberately complicated to put you off, I feel certain!

You don't have to answer every question or even personalise it, you could simply send the Nordic model answer as it is in an email to be super quick.

If it helps I felt particularly interested in an area of surrogacy so I think if you feel strongly about one area, just focus on that but no need to personalise it at all.

SabrinasCat · 08/10/2019 10:05

Thanks for this OhHolyJesus

What a horribly complicated consultation. I have no idea how to answer these questions. I wanted to give a personal response but will do as you suggest and adapt the Nordic model template.

Who has the time and capacity to actually fill all this out themselves?

Agree, consultation not fit for purpose

OhHolyJesus · 08/10/2019 09:40

Proposed changes as I seem them and in haste Sabrina's Cat

To remove the mothers parental rights at birth so at first breath the baby is under legal parentage of the intended parents
To reduce the time limit after birth where the mother can object to the above
To make that objection a legal challenge in writing
To change the level of judge who reviews cases (I admit I didn't fully understand that bit but there were several questions about it)
To give a minimum age limit for a surrogate - to 18
No limit to the number of pregnancies a surrogate can have before being a surrogate

The consultation references laws or guidance that they do not link to so you have to dig around - the Nordic model answers are well written so for speed I would just personalise those.

Share the letter far and wide - the consultation is not fit for purpose!

SabrinasCat · 08/10/2019 08:57

I have signed the letter and am about to tackle the consultation form. It’s massive and I’m not looking forward to it.

Can anyone clarify, is the main purpose of the proposed changes to allow surrogacy to be a commercial arrangement?

HandsOffMyRights · 08/10/2019 07:06

I responded to the consultation a couple of weeks ago and had a stock email response yesterday.

I have now signed the letter upthread too.

Thank you MN for raising my awareness of this issue.

Women's bodies and babies are not commodities.

ChattyLion · 08/10/2019 06:54

bumping this thread because this consultation closes on Friday this week (11 Oct)
Like with the GRA public consultation as it gets towards closing time, when we need to be sending off our responses, shills are popping up on FWR threads to tell to shut up and our views are not relevant- that means people are getting rattled by women having a view - that angry response is always a red flag.

On any issue of human rights, but when it’s a fundamental issue for women, that only affects women, (here especially because only women can give birth), Why would anyone pop up here to specifically try to shut up women? Hmm

So I really hope everyone who can do so (male or female) will respond to the consultation. Flowers

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 07/10/2019 21:15

thank you, i have signed the letter

FannyCann · 07/10/2019 21:12

Also please sign this letter demanding the consultation be abandoned. It's a great letter and all you have to do is sign it!

We've created an open letter to the Law Commissioners with an online sign-up form. People can sign regardless whether they have/are planning to respond to the consultation. This is very urgent. We will keep the form open until Friday morningg_ - which is the deadline.

docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdp16TCOzpaHnPuMdxs2pvkaM6g7NPuP3mguJrvBY5ds57VuQ/viewform

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 07/10/2019 20:52

place marking. i'll do this tomorrow

howonearthdidwegethere · 07/10/2019 20:46

Bump

(Have asked MN to amend title to flag imminent deadline)

OP posts:
FannyCann · 06/10/2019 22:17

Ooh brilliant Didactylos

I still have to hold my husband's hand while he does his in the next day or two. Reckon my family can account for another one. Wink

Didactylos · 06/10/2019 21:33

Done, with lots of detail on the health risks and medical ethics involved
Sunday night well spent.

FannyCann · 05/10/2019 22:45

Another excellent article by Jennifer Lahl spelling out the increased risks of a surrogate pregnancy.
It cannot be right to expose women to these risks.

www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2019/05/52239/