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SURROGACY CONSULTATION ENDS ON FRIDAY 11 OCTOBER - PLEASE SUBMIT A RESPONSE [Edited by MNHQ at OP's request]

181 replies

howonearthdidwegethere · 01/10/2019 21:33

The Law Commission's consultation on surrogacy ends on 11 October. Please consider submitting a response. Needn't be long:

www.lawcom.gov.uk/project/surrogacy/

If you're not sure how to respond (the main document is 502 pages long!), there are already two great submissions you can draw on:

This one from nia, the VAWG charity run by Karen Ingala Smith:

www.niaendingviolence.org.uk/perch/resources/surrogacy-consultation-response-october-2019.pdf

This one from Nordic Model Now:

nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/15/the-law-commissions-surrogacy-consultation-how-to-bamboozle-through-a-dangerous-new-law/

OP posts:
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FannyCann · 11/10/2019 14:51

Brilliant letter @littlecabbage

I hope you don't mind but I have copied chunks of your letter and added in a few bits of my own for a last minute notification of objection.

littlecabbage · 11/10/2019 14:05

I have sent the following email to the law commission:

Dear Surrogacy Team,

I am writing to express my deep concern at the proposals to reform the current UK surrogacy laws. Many European countries have a total ban on surrogacy, and for extremely important reasons. These countries include Austria, Bulgaria, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Norway, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland. The UK should be proposing to join these countries in a total ban on surrogacy, not to further facilitate it.

I believe that all forms of surrogacy should be banned in the UK for the following reasons:

  1. A human being is not a commodity to be bought and sold, or gifted. Nobody should have the right to deliberately create a baby with the intention to immediately separate it from its birth mother. This is relevant whether the baby is genetically related to the birth mother, or conceived with a donor egg. There is much evidence to show that separating an infant from its birth mother causes neurobiological vulnerabilities into adulthood. Nobody has the right to inflict that kind of psychological trauma upon another human being. Such psychological difficulties are of course seen in adopted children, but adoptions only occur where it is not safe for a child to remain with its birth mother. Creating a child in order to separate it from its mother at birth, is a form of abuse.

  2. Surrogacy is a means of exploitation of impoverished and/or vulnerable women. If commercialised, it will be a means by which wealthy commissioners (“intended parents”) have financial power over poorer women. Women in difficult social situations will inevitably see surrogacy as a way to improve their situation by earning money, but it is not acceptable for anybody to put these women’s mental and physical health (and even lives) at risk by paying them to carry and birth a baby for somebody else. There is also a risk that, however closely regulated, surrogacy could cause women to be coerced or forced into surrogacy by abusive partners or family members, for financial gain.

  3. The long term health risks to the birth mother cannot be dismissed. A surrogate mother who has not previously been pregnant or given birth, will not have a full understanding of what she is consenting to when signing a contract to carry a child, give birth to it, and them give it away. Physically, pregnancy and childbirth take their toll upon a woman’s body, and in many cases leave the woman with permanent medical conditions. These include urinary incontinence, faecal incontinence, pelvic organ prolapse, obstetric fistula, nerve damage and gestational diabetes, to name but a few.

Emotionally, a traumatic birth can leave a woman experiencing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder for many years after the event. For a woman who gives away the baby she has carried for nine months, she cannot possibly predict how that will feel if she has never carried a baby before, and may find it to be far more traumatic than she expected. Feelings of guilt and grief could lead to mental health problems for the woman for the rest of her life.

For a woman who already has children, the possibility that she could die as the result of a surrogate pregnancy and childbirth, leaving her existing children without their mother, is an unacceptable risk. Of course this is always a risk with any pregnancy, including when the mother is adding to her own family, but the risk is not justified for surrogacy.

In my opinion, this consultation has not been publicised widely enough to collect a representative range of views on the subject of surrogacy reform. I have seen the list of groups and organisations consulted, and it is unfairly biased towards those who would benefit or profit from surrogacy (solicitors, agencies, private fertility clinics and “intended parents”), and there is not enough input from groups representing those who could be exploited or damaged by surrogacy (children and impoverished or vulnerable women).

I have read the following statement that you have made:

“We note the concerns of those stakeholders who felt that the current law was not in need of reform, or that reform was needed to either restrict, or completely ban surrogacy. We do not think that this position is tenable or achievable, and is not what most stakeholders, or Government, have said that they would want.”

I do not believe that you have consulted the correct balance of people to conclude that “most stakeholders” do not want to ban surrogacy, and to claim that a ban on surrogacy is not “tenable or achievable” is ridiculous when so many other European countries have chosen to ban it.

I acknowledge that infertility or inability to have a baby must be extremely painful, but nobody has the right to separate a baby from its birth mother (and I include situations involving a donor egg here) to alleviate such pain. Acquiring a baby is NOT a human right.

I hope that you will now listen to and carefully consider the views of those who believe that all forms of surrogacy should be banned in the UK.

JaneR0chester · 11/10/2019 13:59

Just submitted my views, thanks to the link to objectnow.com and their model answers. I used those as well as adding a few choice words of my own.

Only took me 20 mins, please add your views.

Ineedacupofteadesperately · 11/10/2019 13:24

little the map is very interesting: a massive red area and a few patches of green, and among the red are those countries which most would say have best quality of life. Why on earth, given that map does the consultation start from a point of 'this is inevitable': most European countries would disagree. Plus they ignored major stakeholders such as women and medical professionals. The word that keeps springing into my mind about the consultation is 'corrupt'.

littlecabbage · 11/10/2019 12:46

Look at how many other European countries have a complete ban on surrogacy. We should be leading the way here, not attempting to worsen the problem.

www.euronews.com/2018/09/13/where-in-europe-is-surrogacy-legal

OhHolyJesus · 11/10/2019 11:44

I don't think this will work for a moment but thought I'd post it anyway. What kind of crazy people are going to try and do this?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/oct/08/artificial-womb-dutch-researchers-given-29m-to-develop-prototype?CMP=sharebtnn_fb

OhHolyJesus · 11/10/2019 09:42

The consultation is still live - last day today!

Please ask everyone you can to send a response, even just the standard Nordic Model word doc in an email to the Law Commission notes at the top.

nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/30/how-to-respond-to-the-uk-surrogacy-consultation-in-10-easy-minutes/

Thanks to all who have already done it, nearly there. Strength in numbers!

BernardBlacksWineIceLolly · 11/10/2019 08:44

The starting point of that consultation just demonstrates how for many people, a world where women’s bodies aren’t commodities is simply inconceivable

littlecabbage · 11/10/2019 08:20

Bump

HandsOffMyRights · 11/10/2019 07:24

Bump

redchocolatebutton · 11/10/2019 06:17

bump for the morning crowd.

FannyCann · 11/10/2019 02:52

So perfectly summed up @Cattenberg

Why not just bung that in a separate email response?

"However, we are happy to accept comments in other formats. If you would like to a response form in word format, do email us to request one. Please send your response:
By email to [email protected] "

Cattenberg · 11/10/2019 00:19

I ran out of time due to problems with my laptop and ended up submitting the Nordic Model Now template, even though I would like to have said a lot more (and I'm actually open to the idea of allowing altruistic surrogacy in some circumstances).

The consultation is a travesty, really. The new pathway will benefit solicitors, agencies, private fertility clinics and intended parents, including those who want to bypass the adoption process.

The losers will be children, vulnerable or impoverished women and the NHS.

TheBullshitGoesOn · 10/10/2019 22:10

I wasn't aware of that statement stella. That is an appalling position for them to take in advance.

Having said that, it was obvious from the way the consultation was framed that they had already decided they wanted these changes - and were only looking for small tweaks round the edges.

Hopefully (although I'm not actually that hopeful) if there are a significant number of responses challenging the whole notion they may rethink their stance.

Oldstyle · 10/10/2019 21:52

“We note the concerns of those stakeholders who felt that the current law was not in need of reform, or that reform was needed to either restrict, or completely ban surrogacy. We do not think that this position is tenable or achievable, and is not what most stakeholders, or Government, have said that they would want.”

Didn't know that Stella. I'm even crosser and rantier now! How can they possibly know what people want BEFORE the consultation has happened. Outrageous.

stella47 · 10/10/2019 21:44

How can they pretend it's a consultation when they've decided beforehand what views they're going to accept?

They even say it outright:

“We note the concerns of those stakeholders who felt that the current law was not in need of reform, or that reform was needed to either restrict, or completely ban surrogacy. We do not think that this position is tenable or achievable, and is not what most stakeholders, or Government, have said that they would want.”

How is that acceptable in a consultation??

Barracker · 10/10/2019 20:55

Done it. Phew.

littlecabbage · 10/10/2019 20:47

Phew, finished.

I had an email yesterday saying 600 plus signatures

Thanks FannyCann

Oldstyle · 10/10/2019 20:38

Have just finished doing this using the Nordic Model template. I got more and more angry as I staggered through it. It is so thoughtless / culpably ignorant about the realities of pregnancy, birth and motherhood. And the stillbirth provisions are appalling. No consideration of the risks of coercion/trafficking, or vulnerable/impoverished women being pressurised into risking their physical and mental health.

Sounds as if it was written by men for men (rant rant) - and I gather the panel making the decision are also male people of the male sex.

Please do send off a response. Even if it's just an email with key points. This really shouldn't be allowed through in to law.

FannyCann · 10/10/2019 20:11

I had an email yesterday saying 600 plus signatures *littlecabbage

littlecabbage · 10/10/2019 19:51

Right, kids in bed. Have had a really busy week, so now sitting down to finish my responses. Have signed the open letter. Can we see anywhere how many signatures it has?

FannyCann · 10/10/2019 19:50

Which all goes to show there are massive implications for midwifery practice if new proposals are adopted and I am shocked that the RCM has taken a back seat in the whole thing and that the law commissioners did not see any need to involve them more.

I really think a minimum requirement would be a hospital lawyer, specialising in surrogacy law, to be on call at all times to check any contracts before a range of events are allowed to happen, in particular discharge of the baby with whoever arrives brandishing their contract announcing they are the legal parents. As an ex midwife, irrespective of my opinions of the rights and wrongs of surrogacy, I can see a bloody nightmare looming and thank God I am well out of it!

FannyCann · 10/10/2019 19:45

Of course Ali1cedowntherabbithole

I think the WPUK letter covers the midwifery concerns rather well:

"Even without the risk of health complications for the surrogate mother or the baby, the experience of being pregnant and giving birth is often challenging and frightening. A relationship of trust between the pregnant woman and the midwife is crucial. In relation to Paragraph 17.76 of the consultation document, it should be noted that midwives are trained to identify not only health issues but also mental health issues, and social issues such as poor quality housing, poverty and lack of nutrition, domestic violence, and trafficking throughout the care pathway.
As much as intended parents may wish to be involved in antenatal appointments, scans, and the actual birth (indeed, in some cases the surrogate may want this too), the midwife’s relationship and primary concern must be with her patient, the surrogate mother. This is an important opportunity for midwives to identify risk factors or safeguarding issues, including the possibility of coercion or undue pressure being placed on the surrogate mother by the intended parents.
WHO guidelines, which have been adopted by the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, state that “all care settings must protect and promote women’s privacy and dignity, respecting their human rights.[10]”
It is not uncommon for women to change their mind about who they wish to have present at the birth once they are in labour. The wishes of the intended parents should carry no more weight than the wishes of a partner or the surrogate’s parents who may have planned to be present but who the surrogate may decide she does not want to be present once she is in labour.
There are many circumstances in which it would be undesirable for the intended parents to be present when the surrogate mother is attending healthcare appointments. For instance, in cases where complications may mean there is a risk to the mother’s health or life if she continues with the pregnancy. For instance, it is not difficult to imagine a scenario where the mother may find it difficult to make choices which prioritise her own health and wellbeing if the intended parents are in the room with her, even if they do not actively put pressure on her to prioritise the welfare of the fetus. Or in a scenario where a scan reveals a fetal anomaly, the pregnant woman may feel unduly pressured to conform to the intended parents’ wishes regarding continuing or terminating the pregnancy if they are present in the room when the scan takes place.
At all times it should be remembered that the patient in this context is the surrogate mother and it is her relationship with healthcare professionals and her human rights, dignity, and bodily autonomy which are at stake. The wishes and desires of the intended parents are no more than wishes and desires. They must not take precedence over the wishes and desires of the pregnant woman or the professional requirements of the healthcare professionals charged with caring for her."

Especially the last paragraph. When I look at some of the complaints the consultation quotes from commissioning/intended parents regarding their experience I see entitled people who mistakenly think that having paid for this baby they are the most important part of the show. I am truly amazed at complaints like these:

"2) issues with the naming of the child in hospital records (the child is automatically given the surname of the surrogate on all hospital records, to the exclusion of the intended parents);
(3) issues with hospital discharges;"

and that the law commissioners appear to sympathise and imply the hospital/staff are being deliberately obstructive. It's almost as if they don't realise that IN LAW the surrogate Mother is the LEGAL PARENT of the baby/ies. So of course it would be given her name and of course I would expect a hospital to insist the baby stays with the mother until discharge and that the two are discharged together. How can any other arrangement be legal and meet safeguarding requirements? There might be a contract but it is not legally binding.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 10/10/2019 19:01

Midwives would of course remain professional and treat pregnant surrogates regardless of their opinions of surrogacy itself.

Consultant led care doesn’t exclude midwives. High risk women are monitored more closely so that intervention can happen when required.

Day-to-day it is midwives who support surrogates and listen to their fears. To exclude such key professionals from the conversation smacks of arrogance. Male entitlement in action.

OhHolyJesus · 10/10/2019 18:37

That's interesting Fanny I also wondered why it would be midwives and not obstetrics. Midwives obviously help pregnant women but wouldn't a surrogate pregnancy be more risky (as noted upthread) and therefore be consultant led? I have little to no understanding of how this works.

And as you say, why wait to comment? Perhaps they have their hands tied and have been silenced? I guess any dissenters would have to officially toe the line even if their personal opinion meant they disagreed with surrogacy.