Not having sex with someone because they don't have the right genitals is transphobic. No prizes for guessing who's claiming this

And resting on the premise anyway of:

• I am a person with the unlimited right to rise above debatably limited science, biology, language and conceptualisation, to define myself in any way I choose , and to expect unconditional acceptance for my choices in my identity and my personal reality. Any issues this causes you are reflective of your limitations and bigotry.

But no, you may not define yourself in any way you choose, and here are the limitations I expect you to obey at all times or be punished.

Gawd some of these people would have loved the 8th century. Just think of all the ducking stools.

Worth noting the extreme narcissm within this view. The other person is a thing.

A lesbian arrives in the bedroom with someone in the belief that they are also a lesbian (and has somehow missed this up to this point. Yes, I know, buzz kill no 1: women can usually tell whether or not the person they're attracted to is female or not.)

On undressing, the lesbian realises that their sexual partner is in fact biologically male. The idealised outcome at this time I suppose is that the woman either 'doesn't notice' or celebrates the male's 'alternative female biology' (the traditional heterosexual male's fantasy here is a yell of 'take me big boy')

The lesbian stopping proceedings at this point on the assertion that they have basic equal human rights, like consent and sexual orientation based on biology, and that nothing kills the buzz for most women more than a person more than discovering this kind of essential lack of honesty and respect for you, is a narcissistic injury.

The trans person's feelings and needs are put forward here as the responsibility of the lesbian to protect and prioritise. Their own feelings and needs (and orientation) should be cast aside without hesitation or question. The trans person's reciprocal responsibilities towards the other person...………………………?

Anybody?

…… anybody?

Being used treated like this is about as unsexy as it gets.

This is the next wave of incels.

By this logic declining sex with anyone because their body does not appeal to you is phobic.

The fundamental thing here is deception, as far as I can see. If you present yourself/describe yourself as a sex other than that which you are, you are setting out to deliberately deceive a potential partner. That is not on. You can't trick people into sex and then hope they'll 'get over it'. The attempt at deception is far more of a problem than the genital arrangement, as far as I'm concerned.

I think RM’s message is so important, the world should hear it.

Especially straight men, who are likely the most transphobic of all.

Perhaps we should consider an advertising campaign.

Here in the US, I think an ad explaining to straight men how and why they’re practicing discrimination by refusing to suck girldick would have maximum impact if run during the Super Bowl. It would really make men think about RM’s important message.

Failing that, stickers in men’s rooms. Lots of them.

I

this makes me so angry. So TW with penises are entitled to have sex with whatever women they please, because to refuse consent to them is transphobic and therefore illegal?

I'd rather be transphobic than raped, thank you very much.

So, if I get to the bedroom with someone and change my mind it’s not ok in trans world! A person can always change their mind, at any point for any reason!
No one has to have sex with anyone of any gender, with any genital situation to avoid offense! What Rapey bullshit!

Linking this thread on my Cotton Ceiling Evidence thread, though I think McKinnon is already on there for earlier tweets.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3294339-cotton-ceiling-evidence-thread

Women having a sexual orientation that excludes penises = transphobic. Yeah, knew that one....

Women withdrawing consent during preparations for sex = transphobic. Yeah that one's been out there too for centuries, it's just not been called transphobia until lately, well known belief held by a high majority of rapists incidentally. Once you've gone to the bedroom girls you gotta go through with it want to or not or you're a big fat meanie and Other Words Too.

Women wanting to run a mile from someone who's just lied to them so clearly neither respects them nor is remotely trustworthy = transphobic. Yeah, Stephen Whittle put that one in the public domain a while back.

Frankly the word 'transphobic' gets less meaningful or sensible by the day. Rache, love, women are humans, equal people, with equally valid feelings and needs and preferences and they necessitate equal respect from a sexual partner. Which is why we spend a hell of a lot of time on the relationships board teaching women about the right to respect, to equality, to say no, to not be abused and controlled, and to get the fuck away from partners who treat them as if they exist only to provide their body to be used by some rapey twat with emotional competence issues.

Trying to make women believe that this freedom and empowerment is transphobic..... well it says a hell of a lot more about you than women saying no.

A "funny looking vagina" is still a female sex organ. Very different from a penis.
Also, when I think of "funny looking vaginas" I think comedy glasses with a moustache on them, being worn in that arwa... that is what McKinnon means, surely? Comedy vulva?

Funny how the conversation is always about what kind of genitals women are expected to have sex with. I never see anyone pushing the argument that men who won’t have sex with ladydick are transphobic.

Also, anyone can refuse to sleep with any one for any reason at any time. Otherwise it’s rape.

And if Transwomen are lesbians, why don’t they just shag each other?

Bunch of rapey Incels.

"one of whom asked if there weren't really more important things to be focusing on."

What could be more important than shaming lesbians into having sex with people they do not want to? Priorities. Priorities.

"Sexy fun time bits" 🤮🤮

The ultimate conclusion of what people like this want is for people to cave in and have sex with them just to keep the peace.

I can't imagine ever finding that a pleasing or sensual event for the demander - "ooh yeah, why don't you fake how much you are enjoying this, we both know your stomach is turning as we do this, how sexy!". Even those people with massive egos that need validating - can't exactly be a turn on knowing that person who would rather be sticking pins in their eyes than laying one single finger on your body.

(Obviously it's near-rape for the acquiescer, which doesn't need describing on the grim scale.)

It seems a case of shooting oneself in the foot to go round spewing hatred on the people one wants to have sex with

Well when all you are is validation shag they dont have to like you or even have you like them.

If a girl has a funny looking vagina, I dont just stop dating her

What the fuck is a funny looking vagina when it's at home? . Sexist much?

And even if it was the weirdest looking vagina in the world, it's still not a penis.

I like men, with cocks and that is because I’m a straight female

Well quite, but when it comes to sexual attraction we are all allowed to be much pickier than our sexual orientation.

I'm a heterosexual woman too but that doesn't mean I'm attracted to all men. I'm free to reject short men, fat men, men under 40, men with blond hair, bisexual men, men with plummy accents, Chinese men, whatever group of men I damn well please.

Try again 🙄

Surely it’s just catfishing if you allow the ‘relationship’ to proceed to the bedroom in this situation?

Oh well at least their hatred of women and lesbians is out there for the world to see.

It seems a case of shooting oneself in the foot to go round spewing hatred on the people one wants to have sex with.

Surely it’s just if you allow the situation to proceed to the bedroom in this situation?

@TemporaryPermanent

Because the entitled Dr does not understand consent. The good Dr thinks making homophobic comments against lesbians like this is ok.
I guess the Dr is correct, no one with any influence is calling them out they can continue with the homophobia with no repercussions, yet misgender the good Dr and one would end up in all kind of shit.
These people have no idea how much damage they are doing. I can't live in a world like this for much longer.
I just want acceptance yet don't even get that from LGBT groups any more. What's the fucking point.

Crikey. The world has gone mad. If I met a ‘guy’ then found out he had lady bits, I’d be running out that door faster than Mo Farah!
If that trans person had any respect for the person they were taking to the bedroom, they would not let it get that far without being honest.
I like men, with cocks and that is because I’m a straight female. I’m not transphobic. I just don’t want to date a trans man. It would feel very wrong to me and I couldn’t find it attractive in any way.

When has this scenario ever happened? They really think women are stupid enough to be duped in the first place?