Abortions

I’m the first to say as early as possible, as late as necessary but I will admit I’m a bit cautious on late abortions.

Yes, the woman is well within her right and I will fight to the death to support that, but secretly, I don’t like the idea of abortions over 30 weeks unless the mother or baby are seriously ill. I would never say it to her face, and I would support her completely, but I think it’s natural to be a bit wary with late term abortion

On every one of those types of thread? Well I don't see that. And I'm all over this place, not just at the moment in time when I sought my own support on the matter. If anything, abortions are suggested on threads where the OP hasn't even mentioned it as an option.
Autonomy for women either exists or it doesn't, I agree. I don't think terms and conditions can be put on it, generally speaking. But human feelings come into the equation, too. Many women do struggle with their choice. Hardly anyone (I would say no one but who knows) actually wants to have an abortion. It's not something people actively seek out for fun. So yes, of course it's an emotive subject. Even to those, or more so, to those who have required abortions.

great posts from ArnoldWhatshisknickers and lang

discussion of late term abortions as if they happen all the time and without compelling reasons is just bollocks

I am pro choice and have had two abortions. I certainly agree with abortion on demand up until the stage of viability, ie about 24 weeks.

A woman who gets to that stage, and has chosen to do nothing to terminate the pregnancy , has to be aware that inside her body is a living child. It's no longer a mere collection of cells which she can choose to kill because she doesn't want to be it's mother . She is already it's mother - killing it isn't going to change that . The idea that she would leave it for 39 weeks and then expect a doctor to kill it because that suits her wish to avoid the fact of being it's mother , is not something I can entertain.

Obviously abuse and rape situations might be slightly different

The minute you bring this argument in, you are blaming the woman for having sex for enjoyment. It's ok to terminate if she didnt have sex for fun??? Yes ok, pp states.5 abortions, are we saying 4 that's your lot have a child you dont want?

I too struggle with the idea of a healthy pregnancy terminated at nearly term, but that's my struggle, and its not up to me to place that on anyone.

Gold dust to the anti-abortion lobbypossibly, if you see abortion as a moral failing. Which I don't. If it's morally acceptable to have one abortion, it's morally acceptable to have 100. It's only seen as unpalatable to have multiple abortions if you see it as an unsavory act, as a moral failing in the first place

You know perfectly well anti-abortionists see it that way. The kinder amongst them can and will distinguish between an inexperienced teenage girl or a rape victim who had no control over her circumstances and an adult women who gave preference to carrying on smoking over using effective contraception.

If you don't think the latter is ammunition in arguing the case against abortion you are deluded. The bottom line is in most cases a pregnancy will lead to a birth. Abortion does prevent the existence of another human being. For many people the "can't be bothered to use effective contraception " is too trivial to justify abortion.

You presumably think you are a good feminist- personally I think you are giving ammunition to those who want to limit abortion rights.

ButHairyHands, where are you seeing this?

MN as a whole is known for being pro-choice

I wondered that too. I'm not sure what agenda the OP has for this thread. If she wanted to create some helpful screenshots for anti- abortion lobbyists she has probably achieved it.

The de facto choice-based system that we have is based on a legal workaround and therefore could be removed at any timewith no change to legislation

I don't think that is likely to change but the sort of thing which is likely to change minds is the sort of thing the OP has been posting.

But HairyHands, where are you seeing this? On AIBU? What you're describing isn't my experience of MN at all. When I posted for support with my abortion, I received just that. Loads of support and empathy, women even offering their experiences which helped me out no end. Even looking on 'pregnancy choices' before deciding to post my own thread, no where did I see forced birthers or propaganda or guilt tripping. MN as a whole is known for being pro-choice, any trolls quickly get their arses handed to them. I've seen that a lot.

Surely someone who sees multiple abortions as a preferable option to using any contraception is likely to be living a fairly chaotic life and makes poor judgement calls in other areas. Not exactly the kind of person that would be a responsible and reliable parent to multiple unplanned children

Yes I agree. However such people are of course gold dust to the anti-abortion lobby. The OP here says her desire to carry on smoking precluded the use of an effective hormonal contraceptive.

Would you like to see more women imprisoned for ending their pregnancies Sparklynails77?

Which legal punishment would you advocate for a woman who decides for whatever reason, she is not going to continue any further? Would you be in favour of detaining women who you deem to be a flight risk, perhaps to a country with a different time limit?
What's your favourite method of punishment for women who choose a health outcome that is actually safer for their own bodies, but they make it after your personal time limit? At what point are you content to force a woman to bear a greater danger to her own health than she needs to, because your right to endanger her exceeds her right to make her own decision about her own health, taking no other consideration into her mind than her own health?

Continuation of pregnancy is always a bigger health risk than termination.
At what point do we compel women to undertake risk to themselves for the benefit of another?
When do women stop being owners of themselves and start being owned?

23% of pregnancies in England and Wales and 18% in Scotland end in a termination. For all intents and purposes the UK (excluding NI) has abortion on demand.

Canada has the best abortion laws. You can get it at any time and don't have to state a good reason like they pretend you have to do here

In theory. In fact the ease access to abortion facilities is variable as is finding a doctor who will do a post 20 week abortion if there is a need for it and it's not free.

I know what your saying Terrible but there’s something really off about women that choose abortion as contraception, it’s awful.

I never understand worries about women who may use abortion as a form of contraception.

Surely someone who sees multiple abortions as a preferable option to using any contraception is likely to be living a fairly chaotic life and makes poor judgement calls in other areas. Not exactly the kind of person that would be a responsible and reliable parent to multiple unplanned children.

With respect to the OP views- although I’m pro choice (voted to Repeal in Ireland), I find that opinion really alienating. Someone upthread said they’d been Peak Pro-Choiced and I can understand that after reading some of the mental gymnastics from people justifying abortion of healthy babies up to term as opposed to induction of labour.

I’m in NI now and it’s a battle of blood sweat and tears trying to reframe abortion as an essential part of healthcare for women here, 60 years after the rest of the UK. I cringe when I think of opinions like OPs being used by the pro life crowd as examples of what happens when abortion is legislated for.

Because of what this one woman said and because of what I’ve heard, it may seem far fetched to you but it goes on, not all women are being abused, some women are just quite unstable emotionally and mentally, or just selfish, i wouldn’t say getting an abortion was a major deal for me, it was what myself and the baby’s dad wanted and I don’t regret it for a minute but it’s not something I’d want to repeat.

I agree that a woman shouldn't be forced to give birth if she doesn't want a child. However, I think the 24 week cut off point for abortions (in the UK) is horrific. You should know by then whether you want a baby or not. Most women know they're pregnant way before then.

Of course, if the mother's life is at risk or if there's something wrong with the foetus then late abortions are acceptable.

I was too vain to get on the pill

What makes you think that women who have had more than one abortion are too vain to get on the pill and not, for example, leading chaotic lives that they may need help with? Or are being abused by a partner - we know controlling fertility is a common factor in domestic abuse. Perhaps they have substance dependency issues? Who knows? I cannot even imagine why vanity would mean a woman would prefer termination to contraception. That's one of the weirdest things I've seen anyone say on here.

That is not the reality of what actually happens.

Yes, I know this. And you know that I know this because I said, in the same post:

The system basically operates as though we do, but everyone involved knows it's a workaround of what the law actually says.

Please don't cherry pick and quote me to imply that I meant something I did not. It's rude.

The facts on the ground are that we do not have legal choice-based abortion in the UK. The de facto choice-based system that we have is based on a legal workaround and therefore could be removed at any time with no change to legislation.

If you don't understand this to be a feminist issue, I'm afraid I can't help you.

One of the Nurses told me that day that I went for an abortion, I think I must’ve said something about feeling guilty (though I don’t remember feeling that way so perhaps I just felt I had to say it to the Nurse, plus I was just 18) and the Nurse -whether she should have said it or not- was perfectly lovely and said I shouldn’t think that way and it was my decision and if I felt I was too young then I probably was, etc, etc, she then went on to say “I have seen some girls in here more than once, and one girl even told me ‘contraception makes me put on weight so I can’t go on the pill and men won’t wear condoms”, and I have heard, through the years, that some other women do this and it’s sick, getting an abortion is something that you don’t want more than once, I doubt it’d be good for your body to keep having it done and I would feel tremendously guilty if I had had a handful of Abortions just because I was too vain to get on the pill.

We do not have choice-based termination law in the UK

That is not the reality of what actually happens.

1) women aren't free to choose an abortion in the UK. They operate under a patriarchal system that requires two doctors to make a judgement about her mental health for the most part

That is not how it works in reality. The facts of the number of abortions and that women from the Republic of Ireland still travel to the UK belie that. The UK (excluding NI) has one of the most liberal regimes in the world.

And abortion after 24 weeks is allowed in extreme situations.

unless it’s used as a form of contraception which unfortunately, I’ve heard that some women do this, they are getting an abortion like going to the doctors

Why do you think this? What would make women prefer termination to contraception, do you think? Do you think this is common? And, if so, why is it "unfortunate"?