Abortions

'Is adoption worse than not existing at all?'

I never understand this.
Like when people say would you rather never to have existed.
If you have never existed then you don't have any opinions as you never were.

Lang that's all very passionate and echies what I've been saying in the main

I simply don't think that agitating for abortion for choice to birth is a sensible tactic when fighting for better laws around abortion, here or elsewhere in the world.

You say term limits are irrelevant. But they aren't to the politicians and society in general when deciding what the law is.

You are shooting yourself in the foot with this, to my mind.

I just can't see eg NI suddenly going OK you know what we'll legalise abortion to term for choice. Not going to happen.

The women who see this are not weak or complacent but pragmatic.

We will have to agree to disagree.

Abso fucking lutely.

PPs have said feminist campaigning on abortion in mainland UK should be about maintaining the status quo and timidly not rocking the boat.

I think this is foolish, complacent and naive. The legislation we have is not elective termination. It's a reluctant, gatekept piece of legislation dating from the 1960s. What works in practice now is fragile, not supported by the actual legislation. It needs to change.

Women's rights are fragile. Our rights to sex-based spaces and services are disappearing at a rate of knots currently thanks to one anti-woman political movement. If anyone here thinks that a different flavour of anti-woman political movement wouldn't be able to do similar with abortion, then they are dangerously complacent. We should be working towards a change in legislation to cement our reproductive rights: not timidly clinging to the workaround we have.

As to term limits - honestly? Largely irrelevant. As I said earlier: women already make good choices with regard to termination. Only 2% of terminations take place after 18 weeks - about 4,000. Roughly 3,900 of those are for foetal abnormalities and almost all the rest have the kinds of story attached to them that exceptions would be made for anyway.

Women almost never choose a late term termination unless the circumstances are exceptional.

If you want abortion to happen as early as possible, the only evidenced factor to consider is accessibility. Term limits are simply irrelevant. Access is all.

clitherow's post is vile but hardly unpredictable given the OP's stance

No it's not vile, it's the truth - the position that the termination of full-term foetuses is ethical is vile.

You believe in abortion until birth? 🤔.

Are you honestly for real? I hate shaming people but you feel more rotten about some weight gain on the pill than you do about 5 abortions?

Stop smoking and buy some bloody condoms for christ sake

This whole situation was awful for everyone.The only person who got anything good out of it was us who gained a son and my son who gained parents

Your son gained rather more than just parents- he gained his life. Your post sets out the argument that anyone saying adoption isn't an option over a late term , no need for a reason abortion needs to argue against.

Is adoption worse than not existing at all? Someone mentioned the poor outcomes in adoption. Isn't that to do with the fact many adoptions come far too late and the damage has already been done?

Boggles so your fight is to get abortion for choice to term in uk legalised?

Abortion isn't for choice in uk at all at mo, and in ni of course its illegal. You don't want to start there?

I've always considered myself pro-choice but I can't agree with abortions up to full term. I think if you were to take a poll, very few people would, even those staunchly pro-choice.

I think perhaps though, I am more morally judgemental than I previously thought and not just about very late term abortions.

I remain dubious.

Dubious about what? You seem to be continually troll hunting OP throughout this thread. Stop it.

@Fraggling the point is that by legalising it the law permits it. If we enacted a law allowing parents to kill their children it would rarely happen but that doesn’t Male the law ok. The likelihood of something legal coming to pass is irrelevant.

Not everyone has your moral standard. I don’t. But I know where the line lies for me so if I found myself pregnant tomorrow I wouldn’t need to seek advice. Not everyone knows where their own morality lies, they should be able to go wherever they want for advice and to hear about other people’s experiences if they think it would help them. At least on mn you get the full spectrum of moral opinions to choose from.

Christ this thread is turning even me off and I'm a crazed feminist from the dittany days.

That takes some doing.

And yet they are being staunchly defended.

There are no such women on MN reading this because it doesn't happen.

@Fraggling well it would be illegal (rightly so) and so I very much doubt it.

....effect change.

clitherow's post is vile but hardly unpredictable given the OP's stance.

MN is not a closed forum. Comments made on threads regularly appear in the main stream media and will provoke reactions like Clitherow's. Some of those reacting may well be in a position to affect change.

And abortion for choice at 39 weeks is extreme and unpalatable

It also would hardly ever happen as women are not flakey irrational creatures.

So continually raising it, what is the point? It also props up the people who want to take our rights away, by agreeing that women are irrational. That we want and need abortion to birth, for choice

I agree with all of the above.

I suppose maybe I'm just more pragmatic and thinking about real life. Rather than theory

The theory being infused with a high degree of superiority and moral purity too with no regard to reality.

There will be women on mn who have had abortions at 37 weeks for choice, not because of any medical reason?

I'd be surprised.

Haunted, Clitheroe post is about abortion to the point of birth, for choice.

Her reaction is exactly the reason that anti abortion types like to focus on this theoretical, not legal anywhere (be amazed if it is), position.

So far beyond acceptable, clitheroe.

There will be women on this forum who have had late term abortions - whose reasons are NONE of your business. And reading your utterly vile, judgemental and hateful pronouncements on them is beyond acceptable.

Away with your bile.

What a bizarre post clitherow. What does the situation you talk of have to do with the OP? Did you use emotive words like cradling and "beautiful creature" for some special reason?!!

A wanted baby is not comparable to an unwanted one. Is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

I agree with your points OP. I also have seen many many threads on which the OP is advised to continue a pregnant when the best course of action would clearly be an abortion. I myself have had two, I don't feel guilt or regret at all and I would have another if I needed it without hesitation.

So what was your motivation for starting this thread OP? You are not looking for advice, you are not offering advice, are you trying to get people on board to change the law? Are you just trying to start a thread on a subject which you know will rile people up?

Those are good points.

Yesterday was International Safe Abortion Day. Was the thread prompted by that?

www.september28.org/