Times article, injury fears over rugbys transwomen drives referees off pitch

I don't see the difference between a female taking testosterone today in and calling themselves a man, and the East German drug cheats in the 80s. It's doping dressed up in a rainbow flag.

If including this biologically male person in women’s sport is inclusive and kind and tolerant to males it is the opposite to females
Verity is biologically female, doped up in testosterone.
Verity isn't male.

Aberhonddu
Grand, I don't know what the disagreement is, then. I said that ideally it would be good if there were clubs for transmen (females on testosterone) and clubs for transwomen (males on oestregen) - separated by sex, and separated out from others of their sex who are not on relevant medication.
Tag rugby is currently often played mixed-sex because there's no contact, but as I said, I don't know enough about it.

I used to play roller derby and there is no way I would get on the track with a biological man also there. I value my bones too much.

My DH was badly injured in a Rugby game a few years ago mainly because he was a lot smaller and lighter than the guy tackling him. Male rugby is not safe for transmen. Female rugby is not safe for transwomen.

In so many sports XX players could be seriously injured by an XY player due to size and strength. It's nothing to do with how someone dresses or identifies, just biology.

If Verity takes testosterone then she does not belong on the women's team. If she is happy to play on the men's then that is her choice.

The women's team can only ever be safe and fair if it is restricted to female players who are not taking any performance-enhancing drugs.

Mermoose
I definitely think that a trans man should not be allowed to take testosterone and play in a woman's team
This is where the whole ideology breaks down. Just because a woman says the words I identify as a man, she can then take testosterone and play in a woman's team. A woman that doesn't identify as a man would be banned from playing if she is found to be taking testosterone.
More fucking lies and more fucking madness.

I think we see the highest number of males who identify as transgender in those women's sports that involve the most amount of close bodily contact with women.

Roller derby
Rugby

Wonder why that is?

We're not yet seeing quite the same numbers of males enthusiastically embracing women's archery, diving, table tennis or sailing.

It's a real puzzler.

I saw some roller derby photos recently (it was a woman’s sport) with a player who was head and shoulders above the others and build more strongly. It’s a contact sport and pretty full on. Now they allow self ID so women will get badly hurt.

I've got a much better idea, why don't we have rugby teams for men to play and rugby teams for women.
I think teams should be divided by sex, but I don't think that someone who is female and taking testosterone should play with women who aren't. Do you?

Mermoose
To me, it seems like the best outcome would be if there were rugby clubs for transmen and for transwomen
I've got a much better idea, why don't we have rugby teams for men to play and rugby teams for women.
Mind you that's probably too sensible and not inclusive enough for some. it's probably transphobic to even suggest that in a contact sport like rugby, teams should be divided by Sex.
Rugby can be a violent sport, Owen Farrell was subjected to a high tackle and lost part of his nose (according to the England coach) recently.

Lumene that’s Verity in the photo. Verity is a transman so biologically female but passes very well as a man. But she plays on a women’s team, we assume because it is too dangerous for her to play with the men. I agree that it would be. Yet transwomen (so biological men presenting as female) are also being permitted to play against the women. Which is quite obviously dangerous for the female players and referees have spoken out about it as in the article. No transpeople seem to be involved in the male side of the sport at all.

Another sports team photo that valorises the trans player. Like that Dutch cycling team.

Isn't it just weird how males who identify as women simply cannot compete with other men because it would be so upsetting and would completely invalidate their existence? And the mere thought is transphobic?

But women who identify as men can compete with women just fine?

For some reason.

Move on and we can become more tolerant, inclusive and understanding

There is a picture in the article of a bearded person presenting as Male as far as I would have assumed had they not said they were identifying as female.

If including this biologically male person in women’s sport is inclusive and kind and tolerant to males it is the opposite to females.

Verity takes testosterone, which would be a doping offence for any other woman.

But since Verity identifies as a man, Verity is allowed to take testosterone. While playing in the women's game.

Verity works for MESMAC by the way. The charity for men who have sex with men.

So in terms of muscle strength and power in the women's game, here's the ranking:

1. Males who identify as women (are supposed to reduce testosterone but nobody checks).
2. Women who identify as men (and take testosterone).
3. Women. Are not allowed to take testosterone. Bottom of the pile. The ones least likely to progress in the women's game.

Surely Verity shouldn't be playing rugby at all?
To me, it seems like the best outcome would be if there were rugby clubs for transmen and for transwomen. Where that isn't feasible because there aren't enough players, is there a thing called tag rugby that's usually played mixed-sex? Someone mentioned it to me recently, so I might have it wrong, but I think there's no contact.

If Verity plays with the women because it’s considered too dangerous for her to play with the men and not for another reason I’m missing then why isn’t the safety of the women having to play against transwomen being considered in the same way? This isn’t making any sense unless I’m misunderstanding something wrt the changes mentioned in the article.

I fully believe people should live their lives how they want to. Feel as feminine as you like, wear a dress if it makes you happy but as an adult bodied man you shouldn’t be tackling five foot women on a rugby pitch or entering a boxing ring with them or beating them to Olympic medals really should you? Why would you want to? It’s not even a challenge really is it?

Verity is a female player on testosterone and Verity is still allowed to play? That's a pretty good indication of how the rules don't seem to matter anymore.

Surely Verity shouldn't be playing rugby at all? A female supplementing with testosterone and playing female sports is essentially a drugs cheat, and presumably it would be dangerous for them to play with males due to their female physique?

I realise this is exclusionary but I don't see how they can safely and fairly play with either men or women?

Women will stop playing sport if they are forced to play in mixed sex teams.
I spoke to a young female cyclist today whose finding she and other girls in her age group are having to ride alongside the Vet60 men. She says they hate it and the men are really aggressive on the course. She said it’s put many of the girls off.
This is a clear example of how men make the rules in sport without any consideration to the women attempting to carve out their place in the sport.

Sorry, Verity.

Well that’s confusing. Why doesn’t Verify play with the men then? Is it hormone level related?

Verity Smith (the bearded person photographed with Rotherham Ladies Club) was born female and is transitioning to live as a transman.

www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/sport/view,worth-fighting-for-the-sporting-story-of-transmale-rugby-player-verity-smit_29725.htm