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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

They them pronouns

132 replies

Yeahnahyeah · 28/09/2019 09:04

So I just watched a you tube video by a non binary blue haired person who was reporting on her pride parade experience. This person uses they/them pronouns.

They spent well over ten minutes complaning that wherever they went that day (watching the parade, coffee, meeting friends) sooo many people did not use the correct they/them pronouns; it was constant, and offensive, etc etc.

The thing is, I only very rarely hear my pronouns used. (She/her Wink). I find it hard to believe this person heard them so many times over a few hours, so I'm calling it out.

How often do you hear your pronouns on an average day?

And I feel really stupid and a bit resentful that I have had to use 'they' throughout this post, or do the rules on here not extend to they/them?

OP posts:
Pota2 · 28/09/2019 10:23

No, I think the cats mother was fairly widespread. I heard it too. But it’s not said when someone uses pronouns full stop but when they fail to use the name at all. See the examples given above.

Or did you get told off for saying things like ‘Mum, Annie has invited me to her birthday party’? Would that have been seen as rude and would you have been expected to say ‘Annie has invited me to Annie’s birthday party’ or would you have been required to say to Annie- ‘Annie, can you tell my mum that you have invited me to your party because it’s rude if I say it’?

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 28/09/2019 10:22

Some kids call me Miss, some grown up assume I'm a Mrs. If people ask I say it's Ms.
I don't ever get worked up about it because life is too short.

I'm Scottish, if I got worked up about people who are, or think they are, younger than me calling me Mrs I'd have died of a stroke aged 20.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 28/09/2019 10:19

Perhaps the relationship between anonymous woman and cat was a regional thing?

ChattyLion · 28/09/2019 10:13

Can’t be arsed to watch the video but unless this person was right in the middle of a Pride Float wearing or doing something amazing, why is anyone else going to be looking at them or talking about them anyway?

Are people maybe imagining/hoping that they are being talked about by others, a lot more than is actually happening?

I do mean that kindly. One of the things you learn when you get older is nobody is really looking or caring what others are doing that much (especially when it’s a bunch of strangers watching a parade FFS)

Could this be that (specifically adolescent) kind of self consciousness combined with that (specifically adolescent) black and white thinking and self righteousness, that most people will grow out of, and be glad to have done?

MrGHardy · 28/09/2019 10:11

My mother used to teach me not to use pronouns around people anyway. Loosely she would reply "she stands in the stable and does moo".

I think these people suffer greatly in terms of psychological well-being. They look for perceived offences so that they confirm how oppressed they are.

Pota2 · 28/09/2019 10:10

Beamur it’s not considered rude and never was. Only if you didn’t use the name. As in ‘ask her (pointing) if she would like a cup of tea’ is rude but ‘why don’t you ask Auntie Jane if she’d like a cup of tea’ is decidedly not rude and never has been. No wonder your daughter was confused.
We use gendered pronouns all the time when we talk to people. Not one to one but as soon as there are more than two people talking, there is a real chance that they will be used.

Beamur · 28/09/2019 10:04

Just ran this past my DD (age 12). She was totally shocked when I told her using pronouns in front of someone was considered rude by my generation and could have earned you a tap on the mouth from a grumpy Granny.
Further shocked when I also pointed out no one has the right to police how I speak about them in their absence either as compelled speech is an infringement of my human rights.

Pota2 · 28/09/2019 10:02

Just objectively speaking, probably more than you’d think actually and it’s not necessarily rude either. Eg if I am at work chatting to someone in the office, I might say ‘oh, Lindsay said she experienced that issue too, didn’t you, Lindsay?’ while Lindsay was present and there is nothing rude about it. Saying ‘she’ is only rude if you don’t use the person’s name at all eg ‘she is going to take the notes for this meeting’ accompanied with a gesture when the person is sitting there is rude whereas ‘Emma has agreed that she will take the notes and we’re very grateful to her’ is fine if Emma is there.

BUT the point is that it requires quite a bit of mental effort to use pronouns that don’t come naturally like they/them so you can’t get too angry if people don’t quite manage it.

NotBadConsidering · 28/09/2019 10:00

Miss, Mrs, Mr etc are honorifics, not pronouns. So if I call a female “Miss” when asking them something in day to day life, eg “What can I get you, Miss?” I am
mis-honorificking* someone, not misgendering them. Another example of the stupidity around this subject.

*I hereby lay claim to the invention of this word.

Juells · 28/09/2019 10:00

Interesting that pp have all said "who's she? The cat's mother?" I always heard it as "Who's she? The cat's aunt?"

KatvonHostileExtremist · 28/09/2019 09:48

Who's she? The cats mother?

Classic line in old school how not to be rude.

Needs an update.

Who's they? The cats non binary parent?

KatvonHostileExtremist · 28/09/2019 09:46

I identify as a Ms
Some kids call me Miss, some grown up assume I'm a Mrs. If people ask I say it's Ms.
I don't ever get worked up about it because life is too short.

Those who seek offense will find it.

AncientLights · 28/09/2019 09:46

I realised recently that I was told off as a child far more often for saying 'she' than 'he' ("Who's she? The cat's mother?") so 'she' was considered ruder than 'he'. I think using the name the first time then pronoun afterwards is acceptable. It's stuff native speakers learn very early on and it's well-nigh impossible to change later in life as it's hard-wired by then.

You may hear yourself referred to, which needs pronouns but it's not often, in my life, anyway. As in a shop, one assistant to another 'this customer says she bought these yesterday & they're out of date'.

However, I shall attempt to count pronoun use today and report back.

Yeahnahyeah · 28/09/2019 09:40

Maybe they could wear a badge?

Oh believe me, this person was wearing a badge Grin

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 28/09/2019 09:40

Nope, when you're interacting with people irl you rarely hear yourself addressed in the third person.

You're right about the Stroop effect, and it can be particularly problematic for some people. Personally I don't find 'they' too difficult because it's commonly used as a neutral if you're talking about a person of unknown sex, rather than the awkward and unpronounceable s/he.

TheAlternativeTentacle · 28/09/2019 09:39

'She? She? My pronouns are they you fucking cunt.'

Oh my days.

BeanBag7 · 28/09/2019 09:37

Pronouns only come yoo when talking about someone to a third party. I can't believe that happens very often in a normal day.
For example, in a coffee shop the barista might say "what can I get you?", "that's £3.50" and "thanks very much".
I suppose its possible that they might say to a colleague "can you make her coffee" or another customer might ask a child to "move over so the lady can come by" but I cant see that sort of thing happening multiple times in a day.
And even if it did, if you look outwardly female how is a barista in a coffee shop supposed to know your preferred pronouns? Maybe they could wear a badge?

Yeahnahyeah · 28/09/2019 09:35

It was mostly the false victimhood narrative that pissed me off.

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Beamur · 28/09/2019 09:33

I can't think of many times I would use a pronoun directly to someone.
It feels false. If you don't know someone and it's clear they are GNC I would simply stick with something neutral until I knew their name.
Perhaps the blue haired brigade simply don't understand why this feels odd to many other people.

Yeahnahyeah · 28/09/2019 09:30

I don't have pronouns, the third person pronouns others use about me belong to them not me.

My bad, I even thought it didn't sound right when typing it.

My whole post was hard to write. It reminds me of that test where you have to read out colours written in different colours. I'd post a photo but don't know how. It's called The Stroop Effect.

The Stroop Test (and the resultingStroop Effect, which is the name given to the experience of an individual who takes the test) shows that our brains process seemingly conflicting information differently than they process more straightforward information.

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RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 28/09/2019 09:30

Thank you arnold Grin

Beamur · 28/09/2019 09:29

YY to being brought up that using'she' to describe someone was considered very rude.
To say that about someone to their face would have earnt me a stern rebuke from my Granny.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 28/09/2019 09:25

How very dare you

Apologies. I'm not that special, and neither is anyone else, with the exception of Rufus who is well special.

HandsOffMyRights · 28/09/2019 09:20

Oh to have the time for such navel gazing as this hard done by blue haired one.

I rarely hear she or her. I did get called a boy once, while wearing my son's raincoat with the hood up, but resisted the urge to turn around and scream "It's Ma'am" or "You misgendered me, have you got the number for West Yorkshire Police?"

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 28/09/2019 09:17

Surely when speaking directly to a person you use their name or "you"?