I've just been called a TERF...

How frightfully nice for me to be friends with people I've never heard of. What an unexpected treat of a Sunday!

Karka umm because as with trans women (according to you), he is not safe from men in the men’s toilet. Engage your brain a little. You were using safety as an argument for why transwomen must use the women’s toilets.

Your buddies are the other members of the SJW movement. I have heard Rachel McKinnon (possibly one of the most unpleasant humans I have encountered) use the word apartheid numerous times. Your buddies are the gang of people physically attacking women wanting to attend a meeting. Your buddies include the intellectually deficient idiot who tried to bully a Bristol PhD student out of her post. Those are the people I am referring to.

That's nice, dear. I meanwhile decline the invitation to be an unwilling human shield.

Why would a gay man want to use the women's toilet?

I'm quite happy to take that on as my responsibility.

You can do that in your third space. You don't have the right to impose it on mine.

Exactly what Ershkigal said. Gay-bashing used to be a big problem (much bigger than today) and often gay men were attacked in public toilets. Did anyone suggest they should use the women’s toilets instead? Did they fuck. Seriously, do you not realise how idiotic your arguments sound?

Didn't take long for that aggression to ramp up, did it?

Never does.

I'm quite happy to take that on as my responsibility.

Oh who are my buddies? I haven't met them. Perhaps you can point them out for me.

Didn't take long for that aggression to ramp up, did it?

It does leave quite a few people with a sticky wicket though, doesn't it? If you won't let them in the ladies and it's apparently so dangerous to be alone with a man in the gents?

It doesn't leave me on a sticky wicket. It's not women's responsibility to act as human shields for males. Gay men, disabled men, elderly men also vulnerable, no one is suggesting they should come in with women. Because that would be ridiculous.

But this whole movement reeks of white middle class privilege anyway. I don’t think many girls born in sub-Saharan Africa can identity out of FGM, rape, period-shaming, forced marriage. Equally with so many of the working classes across the world, many living in poverty. A blue-haired, privately educated knob with a masters from SOAS though? Women wanting single sex toilets is literally the most violent thing ever.

Karka third fucking spaces. That way you would be catering to non binary people too rather than ignoring them in favour of TW. And if you mention the word apartheid, like most of your buddies do, may I remind you that it’s not an appropriate word for a middle class woke westerner to use about their own experience of refusing to give women the privacy and dignity to get changed in single-sex spaces. And that using it in this context smacks of privilege and racism.

And what about the ones who are not visibly male? What happens to them in your grand solution?

Promote the idea of alternate provision which doesn't impinge on women, is an idea which is suggested frequently.

As you'd know if you'd read any of the many threads on that. Which this thread wasn't, till you changed the points on the track.

Karka if they pass for female then I personally have no issue with sharing facilities with them because I wouldn’t know that they were male. But are you honestly saying that it’s okay for me not to want to share a changing room with my male line manager now but if he told me tomorrow that he feels like he has a female gender identity, it would be okay? What has changed from my perspective?

Your argument would only hold water if you said it is also bigoted to not want to share facilities with men who are not trans.

It does leave quite a few people with a sticky wicket though, doesn't it? If you won't let them in the ladies and it's apparently so dangerous to be alone with a man in the gents?

Also, I tend to go to the toilet and shower alone, even in my own house. Personally I have no problem using a unisex toilet if it is single occupancy, eg in a restaurant or cafe. I wouldn’t want to share a room with cubicles though as it doesn’t feel as safe. However, if I go to the gym and take a shower afterwards, I prefer it to be single sex. Obviously. Same as if my dad or brother were over, I wouldn’t get changed in front of them but would have no issues doing so in front of my mum or sister. It’s not exactly abnormal to want single sex facilities.

And what about the ones who are not visibly male? What happens to them in your grand solution?

Karka not really about danger. It’s about privacy and dignity. I am pretty sure my male colleagues won’t attack me but are you saying i should share a changing room and toilet with them if they told me they felt female? Why would how they feel make a difference to me when they are still very visibly male?

@OhCharlieYouPrick I was also called a TERF for the first time recently, after expressing my sadness at the passing of Magdalen Berns. It's the best someone can do, to throw what they think is an insult (not that TERF is afaic) when they have no better response.

Random people of any sex can't come in my bathroom, on account of it being in my house. If there are public conveniences which include bathtubs then I'm assuming they're intended to be used by one person t a time.

This has been your pedantic British moment for the day.

Non sequitur.

That's the phrase I was looking for.

If you don't understand why single sex facilities exist, maybe it's unwise to try to remove them. Chesterton's Fence...

Sure, let's go by your made up statistics. If men are so dangerous, why is it OK for the ten percent of trans women who do pass to share a bathroom with the men? What about their safety?