Is 'Housewife' an occupation?

I truly don't think you can ever have an equal society with men doing their fair share of housework and childcare if some women choose not to contribute financially.
so your feeling is housewives are responsible for inequality

What a powerful role they play.

What you choose to do with your life, employed, or unemployed really is not driving that. It’s ludicrous to suggest that the work a housewife does damages society because she receives no salary for it (though may save £££££s more than she could have earns). Particularly blinkered if you feel she would be a positive role model if she did the same work as an employee.

People with paid jobs don’t have this level of scrutiny... some jobs may not involve that much ‘effort’ or it may be seasonal. Do we ask why company directors don’t manage their own schedule and have more of them (to compensate for the time taken) because division of labour where their assistants are mainly women perpetuates stereotypes?

Why agonise over the term ‘housewife’? There is a huge range of busyness same as people in many paid jobs - company director, consultant in various specialist areas (eg business), self employed...

@LisaSimpsonsbff , but until women in paid work becomes the norm, attitudes will be slow to change. I am not talking about someone who has a short career break to change jobs or a parent who stays at home for the early years. Whilst there are lots of 'housewives' around, many people will continue to think that housework is the job of the wife. If we want real change and a really equal society, then we need to assume that most women work. So many other ingrained, aspects of society have changed for the better. There used to be a time when no one bothered much with the education of girls because they were going to, ultimately, be housewives. Domestic science was taught in girls schools, how to iron, how to wash clothes. Thankfully, that attitude has gone. It is why I find MN posters who want to lay claim to the title 'housewife' really depressing.

I described myself on a form like this last week.
Until 6 weeks ago I had a job and indeed worked full time whilst bringing up 3 children. I walked out of my job as it was the most awful job.
I am being supported by my dh whilst I consider my next move. I don't class myself as unemployed. My youngest is at secondary school. Bit stumped as there wasn't a "none of your business" box.

You see endless posts from SAHM on MN who object to wife work and housework. In my opinion, the guilt and pressures about domestic stuff stop the minute women have paid work.

I work full-time and our house is a very 50-50 split but this is obvious bollocks for many, many women. Plenty of those MN posts are about women who work and still carry the mental load and work. As I say, we both work and try and split things evenly but I wouldn't say that 'the guilt and domestic pressure stop' because I work - there's a lot of stuff that has to be done, and doing it all around work is it's own pressure. And that's with a partner who does his share (and DH does more than his share, though that's because he works shorter hours than me) - for an awful lot of women going back to work isn't going to mean their partner does half the domestic work. Sometimes that's for good reasons (he works away, works much longer hours, doesn't exist), sometimes for bad (he's selfish, lazy and sees it as women's work) but study after study shows that most women do the bulk of domestic work even if they work full-time.

I completely agree with you @Soontobe60 . I do think that MN has more than its fair share of housewives and permanent SAHMs with adult children than other sites. You see endless moans on here from unhappy women who feel unappreciated stuck in a domestic rut and I want to shout, get a job. The number of women who work in paid employment is rising all the time. Contributing financially and helping support a family is a grown up responsibility. In my opinion, and others may not agree, it makes for happier, healthier families.

The woman replied "I'm a mother".
Robinson replied "So what? I'm a mother, lots of people are mothers, that's nothing special".

Would have been awesome if the woman has gone ‘ how would you know given you lost custody of your 2 year old due to alcoholism ‘

I am always amazed when women with secondary age children or older choose not to work and to rely on their husband or partner to support them financially. I truly don't think you can ever have an equal society with men doing their fair share of housework and childcare if some women choose not to contribute financially. You see endless posts from SAHM on MN who object to wife work and housework. In my opinion, the guilt and pressures about domestic stuff stop the minute women have paid work. I insisted on a cleaner who also did the ironing. My sons helped from an early age with cooking and shopping. My husband always pulled his weight.
Everything felt more equal as soon as I went back to work. I think my children enjoyed having responsibility. They grew up, using the washing machine and sticking on the dishwasher. They enjoyed time and space to themselves at the end of the school day. They liked the fact that I was busy and so I didn't depend on them for company.
I am with you OP. Until women and men share being the breadwinner and share domestic responsibilities you will never properly have an equal society.

I described myself as a mother at that time.

I remember watching The Weakest Link years ago, and Anne Robinson asked a contestant what she did. The woman replied "I'm a mother".
Robinson replied "So what? I'm a mother, lots of people are mothers, that's nothing special".

it's so we can all be astonished when a bus driver or a housewife turns out to know something

Yes, wasn't there a cabbie that won Mastermind years ago and astonished everyone?

As long as we continue to value people mainly on their economic contribution I suspect that those that are comfortable with being described as housewives don’t.

I mean bourgeois. It Auto corrected.

I think Borgeous Boheme works quite well as a term for people who actually have very few responsibilities/obligations, like a housewife with grown kids.

My SiL is a housewife. Kids now I’m their 20s. BILs salary is in the millions per year. She has a nice life, lots of travel. I’d call her Borgeous Boheme.

As long as we continue to value people mainly on their economic contribution, we'll always have this problem. Whoever dies with the most toys wins (oh and try to look busy while you're at it). If ever there was a time to reflect on our outcome measurements as a society, now's probably it. We place fuck all value on caring roles (even that of our own children) and then wonder why we have a mental health crisis.

I would never ever call myself a housewife. I would hate to be seen as someone wholly responsible for a house and housework.

If I didn’t have to work I doubt I would spend my time doing housework, I’d probably have hobbies and take craft/fitness classes and therefore I’d call myself a student.

I’m sure other non working people could call themselves volunteers if they spent some time volunteering.

To be honest there would be very few people who don’t work, don’t take any sort of class or don’t volunteer!

Once you’re over 45 you could call yourself a retiree!

And if they are actually unemployed a more positive label would be jobseeker.

There have been efforts to find different ways to describe women who do uncompensated housework, because women really do not marry houses.
homemaker.
family manager.
home economist.
home engineer.
lady of the house.
mistress of the house.
No matter what it is called it remains a low status position in most societies.

I think they get annoyed because they are jealous and because it shakes their world view that being employed is important if not crucial.

Indeed it could be the case.

I do agree that it can leave an individual in a vulnerable position if they sacrifice their job to let a partner focus on their career, and it shouldn't necessarily have to be the woman that does this by default. But on the flipside, the mother is going to have to take at least some time off to have the baby, so I can see why they might continue in the routine (in addition to the fact that a lot of women cherish those early months with their newborn and wouldn't actually want to sacrifice them from what I've seen.

There are nearly always going to be elements of risk in a relationship, be it shared finances, or moving in together/buying a house etc. I note that many feminists see it as a sacrifice for a woman to step back from her job, but many other women I encounter seem to view things from a teamwork perspective and seem more interested in how they will function as a family unit.

I think some men sometimes just make stuff up about 'what feminists think' to fit their own agenda, tbh.

I think they get annoyed because they are jealous and because it shakes their world view that being employed is important if not crucial.

This thread is about the term 'housewife', the role and it's status.

Yes, and my point is about the fact that some women arguably get annoyed with others who choose not to pursue an ambitious career because it highlights the (primarily female) privilege of enjoying a decent standard of life due to the earnings of one's partner.

Bloody ungrammatical oxymoronic autocorrect.

No idea. This thread is about the term 'housewife', the role and it's status.

Housewives aren't 'ladies of leisure'.

Ok, but what would a 'lady of leisure' likely refer to herself as? Probably not 'unemployed'.

No, your first post conflated 'housewife'** with a person of leisure.

Housewives aren't 'ladies of leisure'.

A man of leisure, how much childcare, housekeeping, eldercare, cooking does he do?

The clue is in the word 'leisure'.

I was talking more about 'ladies of leisure' than SAHMs, hence the reference. The type who spend their time 'pursuing their hobbies' as a few upthread have mentioned.

I'm not against it as it's not really my business, but it is a privilege IMO to be able who spend one's time that way (although I know some will argue the injustice of being deprived of the joys of facing the daily grind).