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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is 'Housewife' an occupation?

292 replies

Soontobe60 · 27/09/2019 19:37

First contestant on Mastermind tonight has given her occupation as housewife. Does that mean she is employed by her husband? She looks too old to have children that need looking after, and if she had an adult disabled child then her occupation would be carer.
Surely in this day and age no one claims that their occupation is housewife?

OP posts:
AMAM8916 · 29/09/2019 12:52

It's not an occupation or a job. Lots of people work full time and part time and still do all the roles of 'housewife or househusband' such as cleaning, cooking, looking after the kids and everything else. You'd be a stay at home mum or dad or parent if your kids are young like under 16/18 but I don't know what you'd call someone that has grown kids and no job, doesn't volunteer or do anything really.

Obviously people that have retired say 'I'm a retired teacher' for example.

I don't know what I'd do if I got to 50 odd and had to describe my occupation as housewife! I would perhaps look around and see if there was somewhere I could put my time to for even a couple of hours a week so I at least had something and wasn't defined at someone who's job is keeping a house as it's not a job, it's part of life

Aoibhneas · 29/09/2019 12:52

Yes being a Housewife is an occupation

5zeds · 29/09/2019 12:51

@bd67th I was forgetting that. Mind boggling at rebranding with-woman, so as not to mention women in case it puts men off doing that job. Grin.

Wiltshirelass2019 · 29/09/2019 12:47

It’s up to her how she describes herself. Women need to stop judging each other

bd67th · 29/09/2019 12:44

minesagin37 "Midwife" means "with woman", it's a description of the role of being with a woman as she gives birth.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 29/09/2019 12:21

No ones dressing it up or calling it something it isn't but it's a way someone spends their day so we're discussing what to call it.

I'm not working right now so tend to just state that if asked but i appreciate others may prefer to describe it differently. Horses for courses and all Smile

Fraggling · 29/09/2019 12:17

Our list of jobs at work has housewife, househusband and houseperson.

Also home maker I think.

Still haven't seen a decent alternative suggested.

Still think that whatever its called it will be undervalued and debated and women will have to justify their lives to all and sundry. Because, Capitalism + misogyny.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 29/09/2019 12:11

deydododatdodontdeydo

I mentioned park run, and everything else, because they are things housewives of my own acquaintance do beyond the obvious tasks of homemaking and childrearing.

It wasn't intended to be an exhaustive list, nor a list of things only women or those not in paid employment can do but a list to illustrate how very often those who aren't in paid employment are the glue of society precisely because their time is not largely taken up by work. I could write a similar list of things retirees I happen to know do which would equally illustrate how people not in paid employment make a significant contribution.

I just feel society places too little value on people who aren't earning money and forget the myriad other things that go into making the world a nicer place for us all.

deydododatdodontdeydo · 29/09/2019 12:00

I'm a housewife with secondary age kids and this thread is making me feel a little lazy.
I certainly haven't cared for elderly relatives, sat on children's panels, volunteered or any of the stuff Arnold mentioned on page 4 Confused
(Bit confused by the parkrun volunteering too, it's a weekend activity and very much equal split male:female).
I don't even do all the mental load, because DH does much of the financial stuff and holiday planning.

5zeds · 29/09/2019 11:55

Men can do it too. Getting rid of the term 'housewife' will help. Like getting rid of the term 'midwife'. That may also attract more men into that area! I can honestly say that I have no need to avoid sex based terms and househusband/wife seem perfectly serviceable. I’m fairly ambivalent about encouraging men to be midwives. Why would you imagine women would want that?

Nobody suggested a man couldn’t do the work of a housewife. We call this role a house husband, because obviously to be a wife you have to be female.

minesagin37 · 29/09/2019 11:46

@tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz . It's just a set of jobs/ tasks. Fix the car, make sure child has uniform, clean cooker. There's nothing special that needs to be done by 'the house wife'. A bloke could also do it. If some people choose not to go out to work. Absolutely fine but let's not pretend it's something it isn't!

minesagin37 · 29/09/2019 11:41

It's a gendered term 'housewife'. Let's not perpetuate it. There's work to be done inside and outside the home. Men can do it too. Getting rid of the term 'housewife' will help. Like getting rid of the term 'midwife'. That may also attract more men into that area!

sam5360 · 29/09/2019 10:53

I dont see a problem with housewife, soem houses and households have lots of work to be done

Namenic · 29/09/2019 10:38

The biggest difference between working and staying home for me was not that necessary stuff like making sure that there was food for meals, but the food tended to be planned and thought out more, sorted my email inbox, take my kids to more groups/outings. More energy to do things with the kids. Not ‘necessary’ things but nice add ons. DH and I think it was worth me taking time out of work for that just like we think it benefits our kids to do some activities, music etc. DH and I value it as a job. Maybe other people don’t think these things are that valuable, but you can still appreciate that for some people it is...

Toorahtoorahaye · 29/09/2019 09:58

I’m a housewife, does sound a bit old fashioned but what else fits the bill.

bd67th · 29/09/2019 09:42

The insurance guy looked at me like im insane and said "youre a housewife then! Thats not nothing! Its a very important role."

Jeleste's insurance guy is right. "Just" looking after the kids my arse. I couldn't face having fhem at all, that's how hard the job of Mum is.

Grasspigeons · 29/09/2019 09:36

minesagin37 - i think a lot of women do though. Some have partners that share, some pay for assisance and some do two roles. I find the obsession with being busy and doing it all as a morally superiour position a bit odd. I'm not sure life was supposed to be that hard.

Lamahaha · 29/09/2019 09:35

It is why I find MN posters who want to lay claim to the title 'housewife' really depressing.

And I find posters who regard paid work outside the home as the only way to gain "equality" and who do not value the vital work done by carers (whether of small children or the sick or old) depressing. Society will never change for the better while we maintain this attitute.

Let us call ourselves that if we want to; it's self-worth that really counts and it's so important that those of us who choose to stay home (or can afford to; unfortunately it's often not a choice) stop thinking of ourselves as mere skivvies.

Self worth comes from inside, not from the work you do. A rubbish collector is just as important (in many caases, more) as a CEO. If rcs were to go on strike we'd soon realise this.

If I didn’t have to work I doubt I would spend my time doing housework, I’d probably have hobbies and take craft/fitness classes and therefore I’d call myself a student.

It's what I did. I wrote books. Later, they were published and I have made, over the years, hundreds of thousands of pounds/euros and am still, though a retiree, making 5 figures a year from writing.

I suppose, saying that, I immediately earned a heap more respect than when I wrote that I was a housewife.

Why?
It's because we are subservient to money. It's the only thing that counts for some people. Thus unpaid work is by default less important.

In my younger days caring for my kids and making them a cosy and warm home was by far the more important task and it's only when they left home that writing predominated. But still, I enjoyed being in my own four walls and not subservient to an employer.

Even when I called myself a housewife, I certainly did not spend my entire day doing housework. But I know women who do (mostly super efficient Germans!) , and they have very nice well cared for homes and good for them. My home is a little untidy as I am definitely not a domestic goddess.

I did go back to work outside the home when I was in my 60s. I hated it, and couldn't wait to retire. On official forms, when asked for occupation, I enter retiree, not writer -- even though the latter would be just as valid.

We are all different. Let's not put people into boxes.
And as I said earlier, let's not replace one stereotype with another: instead of the housebound mother at home, the busy career woman juggling home and work. I think we all work out individually what's right for our particular situation.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 29/09/2019 09:33

Nothing wrong with having two occupations, surely?

minesagin37 · 29/09/2019 09:28

No because otherwise I would have two occupations as would all working women.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 29/09/2019 09:27

Arnold exactly - imagine if all the "housewives " or whatever we call them suddenly stop spending the odd hour listening to kids read in school or couldn't give up days to chaperone on school trips! There would be an impact many of us would notice.

PeriComoToes · 29/09/2019 09:16

Has the OP stated yet what the woman should have said?

In your own case OP I think you could say 'retired'

Mastermind should drop the occupation question and find out more about what the contestant does in his/her spare time e.g.

Emma is from Wigan and is a keen cyclist.

Thomas lives in Devon and plays ten pin bowling in his spare time.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 29/09/2019 09:11

As long as we continue to value people mainly on their economic contribution, we'll always have this problem.

Not only this but there needs to be a fairer understanding of what an economic contribution is.

People who care for their own children or elderly relatives are making a substantial economic contribution. People who spend time volunteering, running classes and clubs for no personal financial reward are making an economic contribution. Money the government is not spending on caring or education or picking up litter or keeping community gardens is money that can be spent on other things.

Patte · 29/09/2019 09:07

My DH is a house husband. We use that box on forms etc. Recently had a problem with a form because it wasn't available but if you put unemployed you had to provide proof which of course he doesn't have as he's not on Job Seekers/ Universal Credit.

For one member of a couple to stay home as an absolutely valid choice, and grumpy comments about it are one of the things that puts me off (some strands of) feminism.

tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz · 29/09/2019 09:06

mrsmuddle instead of being "amazed" at these women - and I'm damn sure you don't mean this as a compliment - and their choices can't you just accept people do what works for their family? I'm a SAHM to an 11 year old and left a pretty high flying career when I had her. It was completely incompatible with being a mum, no prospect of cutting out the travel or going part time. So for her primary years we agreed I wouldn't work as a new job and it's part time salary weren't worth it.

I'm looking at returning to some kind of work soon however in the meantime as DH hasn't had to consider childcare in those years his career has taken off. This could not have happened for him if we were both working and he knows the short term sacrifice I've made to allow this. With one salary we're not rich and never will be, we have to cut our cloth accordingly.I contributed significantly more to the family coffers pre motherhood and our finances are such that if the worst happened and we were to separate I'd be ok. And I'd be back at work too.

So it's worked for us and it sounds like your plans have worked well for your family and as women, that's good to hear. But your posts come across as judging others for what's worked for them, claiming our choice makes for a less happy and healthy family.

And definitely don't guilt trip someone like me for society not valuing "housewife work ". Confused