Trans rules for Japan 2020 on ice?

@dadshere are you sure you're not a doctor?

"In 2019, it was revealed that Niyonsaba was born with the 46,XY karyotype". I am not a doctor, but doesn't this mean Niyonsaba is male?

Yes the comment about balancing fairness and inclusion jumped out at me.

When did that get to be a thing?

Bring on the transwomen competing in the women's figure skating category, and in women's gymnastics. Nothing would bring on immediate peak trans for the general public more effectively.

I do gymnastics and we have discussed this in the gym. It apparently has been brought up in a way-some men are wanting to compete on the female pieces although it wasn’t suggested they were IDing as females. However others then started saying well what about transgender people and I am pleased to report that it was agreed that you can’t actually change sex

The advantage is that women only have 4 pieces and men have more. However, I cannot see a man having any advantage on balance beam (!) so where there’s no advantage it won’t happen

Trans cheetahs are cheaters.

😊

Transgender women after hormone therapy are taller, bigger and stronger on average than cisgender women.But that does not necessarily make it unfair

It's this insistence on stating the exact opposite of the truth which is what we need to fight against.

They might as well say men are women. Oh.

“The transgender academic Joanna Harper has argued: “Transgender women after hormone therapy are taller, bigger and stronger on average than cisgender women. But that does not necessarily make it unfair.”

Is the way that it's 'not necessarily unfair' that male-born people don't get hurty feelz? Does Harper mention any other ways? Fuxake.

It is the call to be “inclusive” that is so difficult for “kind” people to resist yet at the same time so demonstrably not a good, or even a genuine, reason.

Inclusivity is such a buzzword at the moment (we had a whole day of it at work this we) and is seen as a “good thing”. TRAs have appropriated this good thing and applied it to male participation in female sports (and feminism, female spaces, shortlists etc). None of which makes sense if you take a second, but unfortunately most people don’t see past the surface.

I'm fielding my pet cheetah at the dog track

Trans cheetahs are cheaters.

Really good they have quoted the new research about muscle strength being maintained a year after testosterone suppression.

“The transgender academic Joanna Harper has argued: “Transgender women after hormone therapy are taller, bigger and stronger on average than cisgender women. But that does not necessarily make it unfair.”

I'm fielding my pet cheetah at the dog track. It's faster, stronger and more powerful than the greyhounds. But that doesn't make it unfair.

Lol me too, I've just headed off to watch clips of Blades of Glory as a result

I can’t tell you what kind of dancing-on-ice-in-drag geisha extravaganza I imagined when I saw the thread title

So - you acknowledge that transwomen have a huge physical advantage but that doesn’t make it unfair apparently.

It's because in that interview, after this has been acknowledged, Joanna then neatly moves the goalposts to the familiar "more oppressed than anyone in the history of the world" position which apparently cancels out the physical issues.

I don't agree with letting it happen (men in women's sports) because although it would cause outrage, you know how viciously dissenters are treated. Chances are it would be quickly normalised.

It means that we'll have multiple male winners of women's events in Tokyo. We've already had Semenya, Niyonsaba and Wambui winning gold, silver and bronze in the women's 800m. All male athletes.

Male athletes don't have to pretend to have intersex conditions any more. Progress, you see.

There will be a big rush of male competitors in women's events, because there is a possibility that this will be their only chance to compete in the women's category, given that the IOC might change their rules afterwards.

These males cannot afford to play the long game. Because there might not be a long game.

I hope that many female athletes get together, get a class action together and sue the arse out of the IOC for lost earnings.

World Championship athletics start next week. I'm not expecting many males to enter because there is much less prestige associated with it. Plus many male athletes will only have just started to reduce their testosterone in July this year, in order to make them eligible for the women's events in the Olympics next year.

And of course some male athletes have testosterone that is naturally on the low end of the male range.

They won't have to do a damn thing in order to qualify for women's events.

Very much looking forward to the fully intact transwoman slipping on the balance beam.

See what that does to their T levels.

It's not the winter Olympics.

Bring on the transwomen competing in the women's figure skating category, and in women's gymnastics. Nothing would bring on immediate peak trans for the general public more effectively.

I'm just going to say it even though I've said it before.

Fuck you, and fuck your 'inclusivity'.

That concept is one of thr biggest trojan horses i have ever seen.

Here's the link to the story on the website:

www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/sep/24/ioc-delays-new-transgender-guidelines-2020-olympics

Sean Ingle's reporting on this has been better than the Guardian's usual approach to trans stories.

"Women's sport is not a validation service for men with identity issues".

Japan 2020 on ice?

It's not the winter Olympics.

“The transgender academic Joanna Harper has argued: “Transgender women after hormone therapy are taller, bigger and stronger on average than cisgender women. But that does not necessarily make it unfair.”

So - you acknowledge that transwomen have a huge physical advantage but that doesn’t make it unfair apparently.

We then have examples of 2 trans athletes who competed in the male competition before transition and subsequently gained medals in the women’s competition. In the U.K. we have recently had a transwoman cricketer playing for the men’s and women’s game on the same weekend. There’s no problem of inclusivity here, no balance needed between fairness and inclusion.

If the Grauniad has put it on the back page, we're definitely getting somewhere. Puuuuullll!

"a reasonable compromise between inclusion and fairness". At least they admit this is a question of compromising on fairness.