How should we treat trans people?

"I completely disagree with that. I think many mums have been in the situation where strangers comment on their baby boy and girl but have got it completely wrong."

You are correct people do make this mistake. My daughter was frequently mistaken for a boy, but this was exclusively by the older generation and was despite her wearing a top with flowers on it or other clothes associated with girls. The reason she was mistaken for a boy was solely because she was bald or had very short hair until she turned 3 and also mainly wore trousers. She had very feminine facial features. This does not prove people cannot correctly sex people just that the older generation expected a baby girl to have long hair and be wearing a dress (I know this as they used to tell me when I could be bothered to correct them).

The surgery is happening to the adults though. Thats the point of the blockers - to arrest the development until the person becomes an adult and takes the next steps.

But if Susie Green has her way then the surgery will happen to young kids too.

re you not kind of proving my point though - people are that great at always correctly identifying sex?

No im kind of not

25 years ago an old man thought i might be a man from the back

But yeah...point proved

Off out now...have a good evening everyone

And I’m sure it’s unintentional but its a dreadful way of trying to get a gotcha

It's not a gotcha. It's the precise reason why people are keen to prescribe puberty blockers - because it will make it easier for the person to "pass" as an adult.

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer

Are you not kind of proving my point though - people are that great at always correctly identifying sex?

Chilling. These are children.

The surgery is happening to the adults though. Thats the point of the blockers - to arrest the development until the person becomes an adult and takes the next steps.

By the way, I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with this. I'm discussing the effects of these interventions and how they will change perceptions in society if they continue at the rates that they appear to being developed.

Yes I’m sure it’s unintentional too.

But it is deeply disturbing that this is being presented in such a ‘this is how things are now’ sort of way.

It is chilling

And I’m sure it’s unintentional but its a dreadful way of trying to get a gotcha

Now, medicine is able to prescribe puberty blockers to pre pubescent children so that they don't go through the normal changes that develop characteristics of their sex. There are also surgical techniques to alter facial structures to remove or add characteristics associated with the sex they want to identify as.

Chilling. These are children.

I was once stopped going to the ladies by an older man who said

You can’t go in there lad (i was in my 20’s)

I told my mum and she said oh he probably thought you were a man because of your short hair

I said...i was wearing makeup!!!

And she said...well some men do wear makeup

WHAT???? IN (insert name of small village)

HumberElla

I'm not saying it's no longer possible or likely. I'm saying that I don't believe that anyone can say that they always know.

I have no idea of the prevalence of puberty blockers usage, though going by this forum it would seem that the prevalence is high.

It definitely is becoming less rare and there are examples of them being used for a good few years now so I think it's reasonable to accept that there are young adults now who are in the category of people that have used them.

I once got called ‘son’ when I was about 17. Granted I did have a short back and sides (as was the fashion) but I was wearing jeans and a T-shirt, was very skiny and had very large knockers back then.

lord

Same with my nephew...he ended up getting upset over it and asked his mummy for a haircut

He didnt look anything like a girl he just had long hair

adult who has received such interventions as a child and has since grown to adulthood.

To be clear

How do you know they pass if they - well pass?

And yes people on occasion did say ‘what’s her name’ when DS was little because he has huge curls - which of course is an absolute indication of being a girl?

Decomposers your original point I think was Re how we recognise sex in adults.

You are becoming very insistent on the idea that this is no longer possible or likely, because of early interventions that are already being used on children and are highly effective.

This is still very unusual, controversial and in some cases has been done illegally with one country changing their laws to prevent it.

So statistically very very very unlikely that we will meet an adult who has received such interventions and has since grown to adulthood. Hopefully even less likely in the future as society realises what is being done to those children.

Why are you arguing this so hard, Decomposing? Are you playing devil’s advocate?

I'm simply saying that many transpeople do "pass" and that, if the trend to block puberty continues, that the numbers that do pass will increase.

I'd say that is very easy to distinguish boys from girls, even when babies, let alone later on.

I completely disagree with that. I think many mums have been in the situation where strangers comment on their baby boy and girl but have got it completely wrong.

Don’t forget phone filters....

Of course it would be more obvious if you took a photo of a male or female, photoshopped on a hairstyle of the opposite sex and then asked people to identify the sex

Photos are one thing...real life is another. So many elements in a living, moving person give away their sex.

But who is telling these kids that they are ‘broken’ or ‘wrong’?

Yes, there’s a push to mutilate, sterilise & medicate gender non conforming children at an increasingly young age

Absolutely

And its not playing devils advocate either

It’s odd because when I was a child there was definitely a push for ‘you are perfect being you’ - mostly aimed at kids with disabilities.

What this sounds like is experimentation on ‘not perfect’ kids. Now that’s sinister.

It's quite difficult to differentiate between pre pubescent boys and girls so if you arrest puberty how does that alter sex differences?

I'd say that is very easy to distinguish boys from girls, even when babies, let alone later on.

Yes, there’s a push to mutilate, sterilise & medicate gender non conforming children at an increasingly young age.
Why are you arguing this so hard, Decomposing? Are you playing devil’s advocate?

As a step to what?

IsadoraQuagmire in fairness if they do pass you won't know and so won't count them