How should we treat trans people?

OP, if you genuinely think that women are the power players in this, please take a brief look at this recent blog by Lily Maynard, the mother of a recently trans desisting daughter.

lilymaynard.com/the-invisible-women-why-are-so-many-women-scared-to-speak-out-about-gender-politics/

Or you just believe what any given male says to you, because what could possibly go wrong with that?

Telepathy, obviously.

And how on earth do you know who is genuinely trans? Some men are naturally petite with fine features and can sort of pass. Some are built like ten-ton trucks with faces like the back-end of a bus but could still have gender dysphoria.

Honestly, why do women have to give up all our rights to treat this one particular mental illness?

I think the key thing to remember here is that just because you, personally, would be OK with something that doesn't give you the right to impose it on other women who are not OK with it, or on girls.

Personally I don’t have too much of a problem with genuinely trans people being in women’s spaces

Personally I don't either, but then I am not a small girl, a traumatised woman or a member of a religious group that says I cannot use the same changing room as a man. All those people, and they are way more than the number of transwomen, would have their freedoms severely restricted and would not have the option of using the men's changing room either.

I’m also genuinely interested why people think trans women wouldn’t have a harder deal than women... facing more discrimination than women in almost every aspect of life?

Because they can build up a career in a male dominated industry then in middle age 'become' a woman and suddenly become lauded for 'making it' in an industry that is hostile to women.

Because they can go into women's toilets and changing rooms safe in the knowledge that most women will be too afraid of them to ask them to leave.

Because they can demand that other people bow to their will and pretend to believe that they have in fact changed sex, on threat of having that person fired from their job and possibly prosecuted for hate crimes.

None of that (and those are just a few examples of many) implies to me that this is a marginalised group.

Even if it were true, and it's not, it would not then follow that women should give up our spaces, or that this is our problem to solve. The problem is men, who make life difficult for other men who for whatever reason they deem insufficiently manly. They are therefore the ones who need to change.

coffee, the power play is the same power play there is all over the world. There is hardly any society on earth that hasn't managed to end up with the male class in the power position. It's the default. We live with default male. Get a hold of Invisible Women to see how pervasive and disadvantaging this is for women. Fact is, it's a rare man who will be happy to relinquish his advantage.

Sorry, that should read that women should be paid the same as men.

also not all men think this

Of course not all men think that way, it goes without saying. But if men as a whole thought that women should be paid the same as women for jobs of equal skill and/or value then it just wouldn't be the case, and wouldn't ever have been the case, that men are often paid more than women for doing an equivalent job.

Why would an employer be less likely to employ a male born person than a female one? In what context? Because they were concerned the trans person would have a baby if they were of a certain age? Because they had school age children and would have expectations on them due to that? Perhaps because they took time out to bear and raise a young family and lost a lot of career position? Stuff like that?

in terms of finding a job for example an employer would be less likely to hire a trans women over a women

Depends on the job. If it’s software engineering in Silicon Valley they’ll hire the trans woman first every time. Then slap each other on the back for improving representation of both “women” in coding AND “LGBT”

facing more discrimination than women in almost every aspect of life?

Nonsense. For self ID trans women, which are the majority, everyone looking at them knows they are male. They do not experience misogyny. They retain many of the privileges they always have had as males.

They may experience what amounts to homophobia. As Dan Savage always says, homophobia is misogyny’s little brother - sexist men are afraid of expressing femininity, because that would make them less than human (what they consider women). Thus they are repulsed by gay men and feminine men. They also hate men who are in any way weak or less able.

Maybe you mean passing trans women? Well if they truely pass they experience as much discrimination as any woman - not more.

coffee, are you in earnest? Seriously? Why do you think a man presenting himself as a female would have a harder time than an actual woman?

Treat them exactly as they are.

Which is to say, as every other person when sex is irrelevant.
And as their actual sex when sex is relevant.

That should read nearly all said.

If anyone feels that someone else's discomfort trumps theirs then I suggest some therapy and possible a book on building your self esteem.

coffee, you're missing the point of those comments. The reason single sex spaces exist is because women as a class are at significant risk from men as a class, due to our differing biology. We are at a significant disadvantage in a number of ways due to that. That puts men in a more powerful position, as a class. Therefore, if one of their number struggles with an issue like dysphoria, why would the assumption ge for the less powerful group ie, women, to sort it out?

We've nearly said third spaces. We're the only ones who've ever said it. Because this has never been about trans people, I'm afraid. It's always been a power play to underline that women are simply not allowed to set their own boundaries.

I would feel that there comfort triumphs my discomfort because life is harder for them

It doesn't, and as a class compared to women as a class, it isn't.

by the same argument men could say who cares about equality of wages for women, our concern is that men earn as much as possible

That's exactly what they do say.