How should we treat trans people?

It was Ruth Hunt specifically who said it, if that helps with the googling. BTW she's now going to be in the House of Lords!

Ruth Hunt said it, waca in an interview.

It's been said like, a million times now.
Third space. I don't care if it's called "mixed sex", "unisex", "for all genders", "gender neutral".
I don't care.

It's not my problem. Keeping women's spaces for women, is.

Empress It also fits with the Stonewall view that since women are going to be raped anyway, our safety & comfort are irrelevant compared to that of the men who want priority in our spaces

I'm sufficiently gobsmacked by that to ask for a citation, because I am having difficulty believing anyone could say that and I am really hoping that FWR has misinterpreted something more benign.

Well, ok, how many times do we need to repeat ourselves over and over again that there is a blindingly obvious need for a third mixed sex space.

The problem of where a trans person goes is for the trans person to find a solution to, not for other people to put up and shut up. Women didn't used to be catered for when it came to toilets etc and they had to sort the problem out by campaigning and working to have dedicated spaces built.

It is actually written into the Equality Act that a TM can be excluded from a women's space if their "perceived maleness" makes a woman uncomfortable.

So where does the Equality Act suggest the transman goes then? Into the men's space? But what if their presence their makes a man uncomfortable? Equally, the same with a transwoman?

Why are we (as a society) having to accommodate a very small, niche group of men?
The irony here is that it takes a man to shout and he gets what he wants.

Qcng
Where are these mixed spaces then?
You say transmen and transwomen who "pass" shouldn't use single sex spaces but use the mixed spaces instead but where are they?

They don't exist widely, and where they do exist it's where the women's space has been converted into a mixed space (often keeping a men only space for men at the same time), eg Hampstead Ponds. Topshop and MnS changing rooms. The Science museum toilets. Women's sports. You name it.

TRAs have spent so much energy obliterating women's spaces and making them mixed already, we find ourselves in a situation needing to fight for women's spaces all over again.

Just use some common sense that's all.

It is actually written into the Equality Act that a TM can be excluded from a women's space if their "perceived maleness" makes a woman uncomfortable.
It's also lawful to exclude a TW from a women's space for being male. This is a sensible law that has worked for women for years. There's nothing wrong with it.

T Activists have bullied organisations relentlessly to ignore the law. I think enough is enough now.

Women are speaking out and that's great, but TW/TM really should be sorting it out.

Some people have said that they're not, actually. We're not all the same person with different usernames.

. Why do you think women should have to sort out trans people’s problems?

I don't think women should sort this out. I think society should though. I think planners and architects, whose job it is to do this, should be sorting it out.

I also dont understand why these discussions only focus on transwomen. I would find it difficult to have to share a hospital ward or a changing room with someone who looked like a man, yet you are all very happy for transmen to be welcomed into female only spaces.

Sorry, that ended up on the wrong thread for some reason

Women fought to get single sex spaces. If trans people want their own spaces, I'd be right behind them. But they have to lead the fight

'Putrid beliefs' such as women need sex based rights.

Yep, newspapers please spread that as widely as possible, plus that the police don't police when special people break the law.

Decomposing perhaps they should campaign for them (in addition, not instead of, single sex spaces)? They seem to be quite effective as campaigning to destroy women’s spaces so I am sure if TRA turned their attention towards campaigning for mixed sex spaces they may find some success. Why do you think women should have to sort out trans people’s problems?

Qcng

Where are these mixed spaces then?

You say transmen and transwomen who "pass" shouldn't use single sex spaces but use the mixed spaces instead but where are they?

And indeed, feminists would agree that men need to stop being so violent. Not sure how putting women at greater risk achieves that goal.

trans women in men’s spaces would be very unsafe for trans women in terms of violence

What that says to me is that men need to stop being violent towards men who they consider to be not masculine enough.

Male on male violence has nothing to do with women.

How can you say all women are happy to share women's spaces with transmen? On what basis do you make that assumption?

Just use your common sense.
Most transmen are obviously female. Especially after they open their mouth and speak.
If they're looking like Buck Angel doped up on testosterone to the eyeballs, obviously this will make women uncomfortable so you'd expect the transman to have respect for women and not impinge on their spaces, and to use the mixed space.

Same with extremely passing transwomen, they'd stand a mile out in the men's, so have respect for women, don't use the women's space, use the mixed sex space for whatever it is (always seems to reduce to toilets, but it could be anything. Prisons, dorms, sport, anything).

So in my area we have unisex showers. Probably because we only have 2 showers. However the diversity training said if you id as a woman you must be accepted as a woman and can use the toilets you want.
Presumably if men say they're women they'll face the glass ceiling like we do and be paid less, not get those opportunities to climb the greasy pole either. Somehow I suspect that won't be the case.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6195853/amp/Credit-Suisse-boss-dresses-woman-slammed-appearing-100-women-list.html

trans women in men’s spaces would be very unsafe for trans women in terms of violence

I don't get why this is accepted as 'just the way it is'. Well I do, because patriarchy, but it still gives me the rage every time I see it.

Are these open showers? Cause if so, that's enabling voyeurism and is an excellent way to ensure that female staff never shower onsite again.

So in my job (it's Oxbridge) you're allowed to self id. So basically I have to agree, as a woman, that a man can say he's a woman ( so frigging disrespectful and also biologically ridiculous) and use our toilets and showers presumably

A response to coffe's post at 01:28

See, I might keep quiet in that situation, depending, but it wouldn't be because I would be OK with it, it would be because I quite like having teeth.

www.reddit.com/r/thisneverhappens/comments/d56a8e/florida_63_280lb_tim_punches_woman_knocking_out/