Labour party just came to my door...

The thing is ‘define a woman’ is an attempt to get the canvasser to give their personal view, which isn’t really relevant unless they’re the actual candidate. If they hadn’t been befuddled by your question they could have stated the party’s current policy positions but also said the party aims to be a democracy and there are people within the party arguing strongly in the opposite direction. Trying to please everyone isn’t what canvassers do and TBH she may even have been a bit afraid of getting the answer ‘wrong’ on an issue where there’s a potential for violent responses.

But go ahead and tell yourself that trying to intimidate women who may be taking their first steps into political involvement makes you the good guy.

In other words, please vote for me, I'll say whatever the fuck you want me to say.

In other words he's a typical politician .

Interesting. I emailed my (gay male) Labour MP asking for his views on self-id. I got a long and effusive message about his enthusiasm for reform and the encouraging conversations he'd had in local primary and secondary schools with transitioning youngsters ( local being Brighton). I think he may have thought I was a trans person myself, judging by his tone.

I replied by saying that I disagreed with his position, was concerned for the safety and dignity of women and girls and for my pals within the lesbian community in Brighton. He then said that, on reflection, he was concerned about these issues too and it made him uncomfortable to constantly reaffirm his pronouns.

In other words, please vote for me, I'll say whatever the fuck you want me to say.

Ultimately, that doorstep conversation isn't likely to lead to either of you changing your position.

That's not the purpose of it though is it? The purpose is that canvassers go back to the party and says "Well, quite a few people are not voting for us because we are pretending we can't tell men from women" and they can draw their conclusions from that.

Who are you going to vote for though? That's the dilemma for GC people.

It is, but it isn't one you have to share with canvassers. Even if you decide to grit your teeth and vote for them, they don't need to know that.

leghair it was a provocative way of raising the issue, but frankly, if you can't handle provocative questions, you shouldn't be in politics at any level.

I'm a former Labour party member, and trust me, that is polite in comparison to some of the things I want to ask canvassers (but probably won't because frankly I know it's a lost cause... though I did have an interesting conversation with my actual MP recently).

But how about the practical consequences - because ultimately that's what matters politically.

Should male-bodied rapist Karen White be in a woman's prison?

Should teenage girls be told they have to shower after PE with fellow pupils who have penises, if those fellow pupils identify as a girls?

Should male-bodied individuals be able to bring human rights cases if they are excluded from contact sports with women, contact sports in which (in addition to the fundamental unfairness) they risk causing serious, even fatal injury?

Should rapes committed by people with penises (the legal definition of rape in the UK) be recorded as female crimes if the perpetrator identifies as a woman?

Should it be legal for a domestic violence shelter to say "we only cater for women of the sort born with vaginas"?

Should the simple act of using the wrong pronouns lead to criminal prosecutions under the Malicious Communications Act, or is this stretching the Act way beyond its original purpose?

What would your answer be to these questions on the doorstep? Or do you consider them too provocative to be worthy of an answer?

I'm more than happy to give the party's policy on a particular subject

Perhaps you are. If you were asked a direct question about self ID then perhaps you’d be very happy to tell women that their sex class is irrelevant.

My experience is that your party colleagues will hide self ID policy behind inclusive and progress gender platitudes for as long as they can. And you are relying on women not realising that sex as a protected characteristic is being dismantled and sold off.

How is it possible to take a person seriously when they cannot give the definition of a woman.
I really don't give a fuck if a question is not in good faith. The times of good faith fucked off and left the building many years ago.
I was told by a man recently canvassing for the Lib Dem's that his niece was about to become his nephew.
I expressed disbelief that a grown man thought that human beings could change sex, I was very polite and I told him about the 400% increase in ROGD amongst young women.
I mentioned Aimee Challenor. Then Sarah Brown's Twitter account. He had no knowledge of any of those people.
I suggested that he might like to go and have a look at what is being said and what is being widely ascribed to the party he wanted me to vote for.
I'll definitely spoil my ballot with a well chosen phrase, it might not be in good faith though.

"Describe a woman" is not in good faith, leghair?

Why?

Can't help but feel that Labour is in the position that it is in (fucking dire) precisely because it cowardly frames questions that it doesn't want to answer as "asked in bad faith" and can therefore be dismissed.

How is that tactic playing with voters do you think?

Just tell the truth.

Describe a woman". The latter not being said in good faith as the OP is already well aware of the Labour party's position.

I have no fucks to give for political parties who have signed up to such ridiculous policies that asking "what is a woman" can be classed as asking "not in good faith".

Really think about that for a while. The Labour Party, which wants to be in power is thrown completely off balance by being asked to explain what a woman is.

They can't identify 50% of the population correctly!!!

That suggests you want to give the response the voter wants to hear, rather than your (or your party's) actual opinion. I don't want to be lied to, I want a party to represent me who has the courage to tell the truth.

It can, but it isn't always I don't think. There is a difference between saying what people want to hear, and trying to present something that's not as simple, maybe even not as simple as you might like. I did some canvassing as a volunteer last election, and like another poster said, if you know where someone is coming from you can often answer their question in a better way, and more honestly, than if you aren't sure. It's like if you don't really know where they are coming from there are too many things you could say.

Describe a woman". The latter not being said in good faith as the OP is already well aware of the Labour party's position

So asking for the party’s definition of a woman is acting in bad faith? Asking to confirm their position is wrong? Really?

I am not going to vote

PLEASE deface your ballot with the reason rather than just not show up.

I'm more than happy to give the party's policy on a particular subject. And more than happy for people to disagree. I just want it to be a polite and respectful conversation and the other person being clear about their position helps me do that. In that regard, I'm sure you can see the difference between "What is labour's policy on self id?" and "Describe a woman". The latter not being said in good faith as the OP is already well aware of the Labour party's position.

I have a file of doom on the windowsill beside my front door. Inside is a print out of various tweets where party candidates have been abusive bastards to women online - some of them directly to me.
When they come knocking I will open the file to the section on their party and tell them all about it.

It won’t help me with who to vote for but at least I can register my displeasure at the wee gobshites who are so abusive online in the name of their party.

And if someone asked me how I would define a woman, that could be because they're GC or a TRA. That uncertainty may have led to her spluttered response.

That suggests you want to give the response the voter wants to hear, rather than your (or your party's) actual opinion. I don't want to be lied to, I want a party to represent me who has the courage to tell the truth.

Not being able to exercise my democratic right to vote would be quite a big dilemma for me.

I'm damn well going to vote. I'm not going to disenfranchise myself on this. I will vote and I will write letters and make a fuss. If I have to I'll spoil my ballot with 'sex is a protected characteristic' now that I know they have to read all the spoiled ones.

Who are you going to vote for though? That's the dilemma for GC people

No dilemma, I am not going to vote, unless and until a party believes women have cunts, not neo vaginas, women are in fact a class in their own right, and men cannot opt into that class, places that were once sex segregated should still be sex segregated. Etc etc etc

I'm a Labour party activist. The main problem when knocking on doors is that you never know where the person is coming from, and there are a lot of people with a lot of different opinions. So if I knock on someone's door and they say "I'm annoyed about brexit" it could be because they're a leaver or a remainer. And if someone asked me how I would define a woman, that could be because they're GC or a TRA. That uncertainty may have led to her spluttered response. Although I agree with pp that if she was actually the candidate rather than a volunteer then she doesn't sound very well suited to life as an elected representative.

Ultimately, that doorstep conversation isn't likely to lead to either of you changing your position. If you'd said "I'm not going to vote labour as I disagree with your policy on self identification for transpeople" then that's fine and she would've wished you well and been on her way.

Who are you going to vote for though? That's the dilemma for GC people.

How on earth could I possibly vote for someone who doesn’t know what a woman is? A 3 year old could answer the question.

LOL, the idea that these poor sheltered volunteers don't know what a woman is... they know what a woman is when they want a shag.

They won’t know all the same things as you know

What, they need advance notice of what a woman is?

Everyone knows what a woman is. We all came out of one.

If your response to 'what is a woman' is to splutter platitudes then how the fuck are you going to represent your constituents?

V good idea re FP leaflets

Well done OP, I hope to do similar if they come knocking at my door. I fully expect the bullshit responses, so it will be interesting.

It could just be handed over to any political callers with the comment that I will vote for any party who recognises these rights for women. (not true about voting for any party but they don't need to know that)

This is the way forward for me.