Trudeau and double standards

t's not that it wasn't considered offensive, it's that the definition of blackface was narrower, and the way it was seen to be offensive wasn't on quite the same basis, either. It's pretty specifically minstrel type blackface that was seen as negative, and largely because it was mocking. But if you had some 25 year old university students in 2001 watch Lawrence of Arabia, they would likely not be worked up that Alec Guinness was playing Faisal, but if you did it today, it would be a different story.

Exactly, that's what I mean. You've explained it better.

I was in an African country in 2011 and was blacked up the family I was staying in as part of a fancy dress evening. They thought it was hilarious, and I had no idea at the time it was offensive despite being from a 'well-educated', 'liberal' background. And if those pictures were to surface now I would be crucified, but at the time and in that context it just wasn't seen as wrong because it wasn't done to mock or offend.

"wee woke wanker"

Three words which sum up the whole debacle beautifully.

Anyone defending this using some nonsense 'different time' bullshit needs to ask themselves if they would defend it if it was a picture of, say a Republucan American doing the same thing in the same time period. If not, you are just excusing the unacceptable because Trudeau is on your team, and that's just shitty tribalist hypocrisy.

I'm not sure that's quite what's been said. And it's pretty cleat that Trudeau doesn't seem to be popular here generally.

It's almost as offensive as watching the cognitive dissonance going on as so many leftwingers dance on the head of a pin to make excuses for him.
It was in the past apparently.
The fact he was a 29 yr old teacher and not a teenager doesn't seem to matter.
I'm sure they would say the same if it was Trump getting exposed like this.
Mmm.
Its three occasions now and he is refusing to say if that is it, or anything else might come to light.

I lived in Belgium in 2001 and remember being very shocked by the Black Peter character they have there at Christmas (which is someone theatrically blacked up) - it was definitely not seen as generally ok!

Blackface has only been understood to be offensive in recent years.

A supposedly liberal man would not have cheerfully blacked up in this century, which is what he did. Anyone defending this using some nonsense 'different time' bullshit needs to ask themselves if they would defend it if it was a picture of, say a Republucan American doing the same thing in the same time period. If not, you are just excusing the unacceptable because Trudeau is on your team, and that's just shitty tribalist hypocrisy.

As anti-racist teens were disgusted by the blacked up Morris dancers in our rural area.

I thought that was something to do with Moorish slavers? It's a very vague association in my mind though, could be wrong. Barbary slavers operated around the coast of Britain and Ireland in the 16th century.

I've just had the same rant at my husband.

ha ha, and I had the rant at my sister when she said "What was he thinking?". So I had a rant about the situation in Canada which has been aided and abetted by his wonderful inclusivity.

Always the feet of clay, with these more-liberal-and-lovely-than-thou people.

Agree 64s.The idea that 'blackface' was ok in 2001 is laughable - anyone who claims to be anti-racist wouldn't have done that in the 80s. As anti-racist teens were disgusted by the blacked up Morris dancers in our rural area. (it wasn't an ancient tradition they dressed in American football outfits)

Blackface went out in the early 80s, surely?

Anyway he is a mewling hypocrite, and I’m absolutely loving his new look of “woke-scold hoisted on his own petard”.

It's not that it wasn't considered offensive, it's that the definition of blackface was narrower, and the way it was seen to be offensive wasn't on quite the same basis, either. It's pretty specifically minstrel type blackface that was seen as negative, and largely because it was mocking. But if you had some 25 year old university students in 2001 watch Lawrence of Arabia, they would likely not be worked up that Alec Guinness was playing Faisal, but if you did it today, it would be a different story.

My working class parents stopped me from dressing up my little brother as a "golly" for a fancy dress party in the mid 80s.

If they knew black face was in appropriate then, the son of a former prime minister bloody well knew too 15 years later. He just didn't care.

There was an interview on Radio 4 PM earlier with a person who said the 1st complaint about the Black and Wite Minstrel Show was sent to the BBC in 1966. I think somebody supposedly as aware as Trudeau should have known in 2001 it was insensitive. I also think some of the debates in Canada go back a long way - like using 1st Nation or Indigenous people.

Blackface has only been understood to be offensive in recent years. Doesn't make it ok, but you just didn't know to even consider if it was wrong before

Off topic to an extent, but IME that just isn’t accurate. I’ve known from certainly my early 1990s university days, if not before, that it was totally not ok - same with my friends - it wouldn’t have happened.

I was living in the US at that point and knew plenty of Canadians. I am confident that a Canadian of JT’s background should have known perfectly well it was dodgy as hell.

If it was 1971 instead of 2001 maybe...

Normally my hackles go up when someone starts ranting about cultural appropriation, but that really did seem like it.

I don't really believe that you can appropriate culture, I don't think ideas can belong to people, or groups of people. But that trip was really, really embarrassing. Like the Indian PM coming here and dressing up like a lumberjack. He looked like a dork.

'It's not that simple though is it. Blackface has only been understood to be offensive in recent years. Doesn't make it ok, but you just didn't know to even consider if it was wrong before'

The Black and White Minstrel Show was pulled for being offensive in 1978. 1978! Even allowing for Canada being a bit behind us on race related issues (surely not? I am fairly sure they have been far ahead of the UK) a well educated young man from a politically aware household is going to have picked up more than just an inkling by 2001!

I can assure you that blackface was generally considered offensive in 2001.
The Black and White Minstrels was cancelled long before that, and
a good 20 years before, at least one museum I know of was accepting various types of golliwog and similar items to remove them from public sale.

Live by the woke
Die by the woke

Honestly this could be straight out of Ben Elton's Identity Crisis book!

Oh, and I really hope this costs him the election, the overprivileged woke fucker.

I’ve always said that he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing for claiming to be a feminist while introducing anti-woman policies. But it would have been more accurate to say that he’s a white guy in blackface, apparently.

I find his fairly repellent. And he comes from a background, in terms of his educational experience, that seems to produce wankers. I often think, he must not know how he comes off to people.

However, I think that it's also the case that at the time, almost 20 years ago, the discourse around blackface was rather different than it is now.

Then it seemed, at least outside of isolated parts of academia, to really mean people mimicking African-Americans, usually for comic effect, that was seen as very problematic. You didn't hear the term "brownface" which is what a lot of the Canadian press is using in relation to this incident. And while it was becoming much more common for actors to be cast to play someone with plausibly their own ethnicity, the sense of it was a little different - it was more about making sure that marginalised groups of actors got work, and less about a taboo around playing the role of another identity. I think that's really attached to the dominance of identity politics.

At the time, I think people would have tended to think it was in bad taste, but I'm not surprised that Trudeau or those around him wouldn't have seen it in the way people are thinking of it now, looking back.

Anyway, wankers are going to wank, he's the same as he always has been and so's his party. I am far more upset with the Greens who have gone from being the only party that even attempted a traditional sort of leftism, to totally drinking the individualist liberal-progressive kool-aid.

another wee woke wanker, who, when it comes to genuine liberal/left concerns, consistently sells out - women's rights, support for indigenous people, protecting the environment - he's all talk and no trousers

this.

Alas, I fear we're not going to get the 'women face' parallel from our mainstream media. But hopefully more people will catch on to what fucking careerist hypocrites 99% of these politicians are. Trudeau dictates to the people of Canada about racism whilst sitting on a secret personal history of being a massive racist. Fuck you, you elite of the worlds of media politics and finance.

I think it was a serious error of judgement to be donning blackface in 2001. Suggests to me that he’s not a naturally liberal person. And also, quite frankly, that he’s a bit thick.

It's not that simple though is it. Blackface has only been understood to be offensive in recent years. Doesn't make it ok, but you just didn't know to even consider if it was wrong before