Jeremy Vine- non binary baby

On Twitter re: the talking head alongside Sonia Poulton who commented on this story on Sky News:

Benjamin Butterworth is the guy who in 2017 'self-identified' as black to take a black delegate's place at the NUS LGBT conference.

twitter.com/hogotheforsaken/status/1174413119646588928?s=20

Just a reminder of the history of how Jeremy Vine got this show.

It used to be the Wright Stuff with Mathew Wright who was extremely irritating, but on one level was more questioning of media messaging.

So it was his show and on one occassion he had Paris Lees on and another guest queried something Paris Lees said pointing out that as he had been born male he wouldn't have the experience of growing up female. Later on twitter etc., went nuts and MW was told to apologise for not correcting the other guest. He refused. Then he lost the show.

So they got in Jeremy Vine who seems to have done all the trans training as an established BBC employee.

What is so strange is that on most subjects he is the most reactionary unreconstructed entitled white male. He constantly talks in gender stereotypes, is sickening in the way he talks about his daughters and constantly tries to undermine the female co presenter Storm (Huntley??) by patronising her. She is twice as educated as him and more professional. He is so unreconstructed that when Storm was off the show for a few days and a young black man stood in for her, JV literally ignored him, and acted as though he wasn't there.

As I said the original presenter was not wonderful but the fact that the makers of the programme have swapped someone who was at least remotely connected with the current world with this male throwback to 70s is so depressing. And it shows in the number of calls they now get from entrenched reactionary right wingers.

Which just makes it so puzzling that such a DWM should be so in tune with the trans agenda.

But then this is tv, and nowadays tv is by and large about other parts of the media world, and you get by on having your friends come in who share your view point and we are supposed to believe it is entertainment, or worse information.

This is just about people keeping their jobs. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. And as we know this is just another of the existing power networks ie politics, media, education, that trans activists have infiltrated.

(I cant imagine anything more embarrassing than being one on JV's daughters.)

I can't help feeling that this is pretty damned selfish too. If gender stereotypes are bad and oppressive, rather than challenging them and teaching their child to do the same, in the process hopefully changing the world for the better for everyone in some small way, instead they attempt to gain their own child an advantage by hiding their sex in an attempt to ensure gender stereotypes are not foisted on to them (alone).

“Im a boy but you must call me she!”

And thus, this is the way the world ends, not with a bang but a whimper...

Even if I didn't already regard the whole gender identity religion with a jaundiced eye I think gender reveal parties for babies would set my teeth on edge because it's just so twee and cringy.

I imagine they won’t be allowed sugar. They seem they type...

Maybe the kid will host their own gender reveal party, Fekko?

So when the child realised that they are definitely a boy or girl - will they be allowed to announce this to people themselves or will it remain Top Secret?

Oh god i had a bit of a snappy argument with dh about this.

He was laughing incredulously over it, I said yes this is the kind of crazy stuff I ve been telling you about for 2 years now that you never listen to snark

How does this fit with all we know about safeguarding children from sexual abuse?

We know that proper names for body parts and being able to talk about them in a matter of fact way is important,

As is not keeping secrets.

Totally get the desire to raise a child without the negative input of traditional male/female socialisation, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Deciding at 4 that you prefer ponies to dinosaurs doesn’t designate the toilet you use at infant school.

i didnt watch it but the world has gone mad

A baby is a boy or a girl. simple as that

When they are old enough to UNDERSTAND, and think they want to be the opposite sex - i accept that no problem

the parents are fricking batshit crazy who decide this about their poor children

Acrobatic theatre - so they should understand the strength, flexibility and muscle differences between the sexes then?

So let’s put little Annie-Mae at the bottom of the human pyramid and Moose at the very top...

Ach in a few months time that baby is going to be your average pant throwing, clothes refusing toddler with the favourite word "NO" and those parents are in for a harsh reality check.

I was thinking about sex related issues and how common issues like nappy rash, toilet training, infections and of course the undescended testicle has been in my parenting circles, you really can't get far into parenthood without acknowledging sex differences!

Naming the child Zoomer on top of everything else is just mean.

These parents are both involved in acrobatic theatre and this feels like one big performance piece.

In my experience, parents who do this stuff where they supposedly reject gender are totally on board with transing kids. It does seem illogical.

I was on a parenting board at one time, they were always on about gendered toys and clothes, and the logic of their thinking was bizarre. The parents were unwilling to give their girls pink toys or princess items, even if asked for. Boys however were encouraged to use that stuff. The rationale was that gender stereotypes were bad. Dozens of pics of little boys in girls leggings.

But the moment a boy seemed really drawn to "girl" stuff, they would start talking about whether he was trans and really a girl.

It was the first time I'd seen that but it's been repeated again and again.

If you want to resist the insidious consequences of gender stereotyping, you teach your children from a very young age that apart from very few biological functions, your sex does not dictate what you do, wear, play with or like. And the older you get, the more you teach them about that. In the meantime, you parent accordingly.

What Charlie said.

Being the sex that you are is part of your understanding of yourself as a person, the world, all sorts of things. Why are these parents messing about with this? It seems quite abusive. Babies obviously won’t care but even quite small toddlers do have an interest in who is a woman, man, girl or boy.

If they aren’t bright enough to realise that gender is a load of nonsensical stereotypes it’s amazing they managed to procreate at all.

She said: "Zoomer will most likely choose a gender by the time they are three or four.

That's from the Sun article.

What happens if little Zoomer is biologically female but chooses the male gender (or the opposite)? Will they then feel the need to change their body to match?

THe only advantage of using they rather than he or she that I can see is that it could ( in conjunction with neutral names like Sam) prevent people making ass7mptions about people before they meet them.

It works online. If you contribute to software coding things using a clearly female name, your code contribution will receive little positive feedback. However, women who use a masculine or neutral persona tend to have higher than average positive feedback. People are rating code based on the assumed sex of the contributor, and when sex is removed , we tend t see women coding particularly well ( probably because they have to be extra good to succeed in overcoming the predujice to get into and work in the field)

ALthough it may be that by reducing the emphasis on sex linguistically, we start to train ourselves to reduce how many sex based assumptions we subconciously make

I feel sorry for the child.

What will they tell them when they ask ‘am I a boy or a girl, or when they come home crying from nursery because the other kids are taking the mickey because they say ‘I don’t know’ when asked?

Yes dear, all children are special.

Those parents can't treat that child as in any way outside gender because they're so wedded to gender as a concept that they intend to just flip from one stereotype from the other from day to day. Not sure what that's meant to achieve other than making the parents feel a bit smug.

The fact they didn’t say ‘the child wears unisex clothes and has neutral toys’ says a lot too.

Breaking the barrier? Let little Mary play with a train and wear blue dungarees, you attention seeking dimwits.

To be honest I dont understand the gender neutral/no diffinitive sex thing.

At the end of the day those born female are given the organs to grow eggs and carry babies and those born Male have the organs to fertilise the eggs to create the babies

This is irrespective of whether they play football or do ballet, play with cars or dolls.

I grew up playing with a whole array of toys, occasionally I played mummy's and daddy's and sometimes I played super heroes. I have always got on better with the male species and still enjoy a whole variety of activities that are also enjoyed by both Male and female. As an adult I dont feel ridiculed for wearing tshirts and jumpers found In the "mens" section or driving race cars.

My dd will be brought up the same, to enjoy whatever she wants, to try whatever she wants, to wear whatever she wants and love whoever she wants. But at the end of the day she has female reproductive organs and is therefore a she/her

If someone else can explain to me why it would be better for us to be referred to as them/they then please try because so far nothing has convinced me so far.

The parents know what sex the baby is though, so that will impact how they treat that baby whether they intend it to or not.