The main problem I had with Stranger Things S3

That video’s interesting because I was brought up in the era of confrontational banter leading to romance idea where women were portrayed as annoying and screechy but this was seen as a precursor to the romance because it was almost as if they were trying to goad and provoke the man into shutting her up with a kiss.

It definitely coloured how my teenage brain saw relationships.

Interesting to see how we’re all affected.

Without having watched stranger things I did find the video interesting as a talking point of how these tropes occur.

It's good to be able to recognise them as it is part of what keeps women in crap relationships.

See also the trailer for the new film about Leonard Cohen and Marianne. Mumsnet would respond with a quick "block him and move on".

Everything is going to have re-enforced gender stereotyping from now on, it's only going to get worse. Almost every network requires it for providing funding for shows.

It's part of social engineering.

If you stop watching things that enforce gendered normality you are not going to be watching a lot of stuff over the next 10 years.

It's a type of government propoganda that works.

It wasn't just the hopper character though.

The children were all children together in s1 and 2.

S3 there was all this stuff about how boys and girls are super different, dying understand each other, aren't honest with each other etc etc

That felt to me like a really modern take. I was their age in 80s, am probably exact match. There was sexism but it was different, the stuff with the journalist woman and the horrible men felt right. But the stuff where the girls and boys are different species in early teens, no. It wasn't like that, that is new.

Also science was kind of cool then. I mean terrible films some but weird science, back to the future, flight of the navigator, ghostbusters, war games etc and so on, there was a lot of excitement about science. The teacher would have been cool with all his stuff in the garage, as in fact he was more in S1 I think it was. And it seemed that, as in the 80s, with Joyce, the kind clever science guy would be the man for her. It felt like they were going there then changed their minds.

While watching I really felt they had chucked the pretty authentic 80s stuff out the window and gone for a load of more current, and to me, objectionable stereotypes and tropes.

Yes I may have overthought it.

I was also annoyed that it was so so much more violent than the other series.

'I thought she was supposed to be nice to nice people?'

Only if they bent the knee!

I didn't watch GOT properly. :) I thought she was supposed to be nice to nice people?

Its a bit like when Mother of Dragons in GOT went all violent

She was burning people alive from Season 1, Episode 10.

I thought s3 was terrible in terms of character development. Really, really bad.

1. Attitudes were different in the 80s. Everyone knows that. However, series one and two managed to convey 80s really well without this weird nut-case dynamic.
2. Hopper was perfectly nice in series 1 and 2. He was flawed and heroic but not a complete twatting arsehole.
3. I'm not overly-invested in characters and "can cope" with characters changing, but changing a character into someone entirely different for needs of plot(?) is just bad writing.

I don't think we were meant to take Hopper's behavior uncritically. I also don't think it was poor character development- he's a man in a dangerous and stressful job with a drinking problem who suddenly went from living alone, grieving his daughter, to being the adoptive parent of an abused, traumatised girl in her early teens. If they were the only issues El was facing, then Hopper was still massively ill-prepared to deal with them- teenagers are hard work. But she also has telekinetic powers which can be used to lethal effect and was being hunted by the government. It's not surprising he's not doing a sterling job as a parent all of the time.

It'll explain why the characterisations were rushed and why half the cast spent 5 episode in air vents.

I have a feeling they rewrote season 3 when the X-Men style teenagers with powers thing didn't go down very well in season 2, maybe the plan was to head in that direction and away from the town.

a) It's supposed to be the 80s - attitudes were very different then b) People are complicated. Doing 'heroic' things is not in any way incompatible with being a flawed character in other respects c) Some viewers get invested in characters they like and then can't cope if the character behaves in a way that they don't like, (which is understandable but doesn't necessarily make the character unconvincing). d) Hopper has always been like that from season 1 really!

i was already an adult for most of the 80s and i thought Stranger Things was pretty much spot on with the portrayal of that time.

Specifically to pick on Hopper's character from S3 and consider him/it from a 2019 POV? Nah. The guy clearly has issues, probably PTSD as well as trust issues and he lost his daughter. It is no wonder at all that he wanted 11 and Mike to keep the door open etc etc.

S3 felt very rushed to me and that's my biggest beef with it. The rest - meh.

I think we are getting a bit technical here.

🤣 Sorry I'm autistic so I can come across as extremely pedantic at times.

It was a response to the "now a days" bit of the quoted line

I think we are getting a bit technical here.

I think my kids got the point though i was noo nooooo radio man not this arsehole.

I've been saying that too. I like the teacher!

I just...can't understand why they chose to go this way with Hopper. He was kind, interesting and complex before. He's become a nasty cartoon character. The series was very much 'strange things happen but its always rooted in reality'. There is less and less reality in the characterization now.

And they didnt like a drink back then?

It was a response to the "now a days" bit of the quoted line.

It's set 30 + years ago

And they didnt like a drink back then?

Whole thing was a hard no from me.
I was ranting to dds about glorification of hard man violence and if they met a man like that in real life run. Unstable, violent, jealous.
I said she should have gone out with the teacher with the radio gear in the garage. I liked him. Joyce seemed to as well. It was almost like they nearly did that and thought nope violence guns yay obviously he's the top pull...

Grown man threatening teen boy is a nope.

The first series seemed quite like the 80s. As i remember it. The latest series feels like it has current gender tropes laid thickly all over it.

A real shame.

I think my kids got the point though i was noo nooooo radio man not this arsehole... 😀

Mike and El were bratty and awful to hopper.
Yes hopper was ott but mike and el needed seriously reining in. El obviously has excuses for behaving like an antisocial oik. Mike didn’t.

I'm responding to why analysis is a useful thing to assess what we accept uncritically. It's not about being prescriptive as to what is put on screen, it's about examining what we take from that. But you go ahead and dismiss thoughtful analysis as woke if you want to. It's always helpful when the opinion of 'duh, it's not real, it's only the movies' is added into the mix.

And I am talking about this analysis, not analysis in general. There is a group of people who sees every story as one that should be didactic in a very unambiguous way, totally in line with whatever the current woke truth is, especially anything meant for a younger audience. It's just bad analysis.

For some reason the same also don't seem to be able to handle that some humorous film tropes aren't meant to be realistic and the audience knows that - it's what makes them funny.

This language of "red flags" for example, because of the banter with Hopper and Joyce. I guess, if they were real people, it would be a red flag, but it's also something that is completely unrealistic, people don't really interact in that way, it's a comedy routine. You could ask, why is it that the roles are played out a certain way, but to call the behaviour something that should be flagged is like saying the Three Stooges should be flagged for unsafe behaviour at work.

He certainly acted like a spoilt little boy when (SPOILER) Joyce stood him up for a date.

Again he could have handled it better, but Joyce isn't innocent of wrongdoing here. She could have at least phoned the restaurant to say she couldn't come.

The difference of course is that mike did nothing wrong in the first place.

Mike and El shut the door of the room while making out, when Hopper had expressly told them they had to keep it open.

They're hormonal 14-year-olds in their first romantic relationship. El is socially naive and vulnerable. It's entirely reasonable for a parent to put limits upon the degree of alone time she gets with her new boyfriend.

And when Mike was confronted about this, he acted like a snotty brat towards Hopper.

Hopper did overreact and go OTT on Mike. But it wasn't coming out of nowhere.

The difference of course is that mike did nothing wrong in the first place

I thought he was being a bit of a shit. As was 11 but her lack of social experience made it more understandable. Hopper's threats to Mike weren't very effective, but I don't know that I thought the touchy-feely speech was going to be either.