I no longer tell my child to be inclusive and kind

I do get the impression that a lot of US children are raised in a very authotarian way

that woman is an idiot. Sounds like she did indeed spend lots of time talking - at rather than with her daughter. And zero time listening.

Quite.

My mother never taught me to be kind or polite, out of being a bit neglectful rather than for safety's sake.

I was really alarmed when I went to university and my friends would spend half their night talking to guys they didn't like because they felt it was "rude" or "mean" to tell them to go away. I've never felt the need to be polite to someone who is bothering me.

It's not that hard really though. Be respectful but if someone disrespects you, don't be afraid to tell them to fuck off.

BCnamechanger I totally get your concerns - I have a couple of close friends with children with ASD, and yes, I do teach my child that they need to be friendly and include those children in group activities, and also that because he's the lucky one who's neurotypical, he's able to find ways of working round their quirks, whereas they physically can't work round him... there is no "meeting half way" in this instance.

But I don't think that's what's being discussed here - we're talking about behaviour which is actively harmful to other pupils, not simply behaviour that lies outside the normal range for neurotypical children.

Oh god yes to being told you can tell people to fuck off. There were times I wish my parents had told people to fuck.off so id feel better and keep it was ok to do the same.

Instead the burden falls on us to put up with it, keep.ourselves safe or out of a situation by walking away. Often at the expense if being able to do what we wanted to do.

Akd a teachers idea of resolving issues is to make them work with you or sticking them.in a group with you.

Yeah thanks for that spend my break hiding from these kids then have to sit next to them in class.

Who's stupid idea was that then

I think what might have helped me as a child and young woman would have been that we are all kind and courteous and polite, but if the other person breaks that social contract you are totally free to tell them to fuck off, make a fuss and 'tell on them'.

I think this is basically what my parents did. If someone touches you against your will/invades your space in a way that feels creepy/leers at you/whatever then that person is doing something wrong and you are entirely within your rights to push back. It's the teaching girls to hesitate, to analyze how the situation might be their fault and how to could avoid any conflict by adjusting their boundaries to accommodate the other person's breach of them, that does damage.

By the time I hit the age where men were creeping on me that point had sunk in well enough that rather than in any way blaming myself I just got angry, because obviously creepy man shouldn't be doing what he's doing and he is the one in the wrong. While that response can come with its own set of issues (grown men don't expect to be turned on and told off by tween girls who're clearly in full righteous indignation mode) in the long run I think it's a lot less emotionally damaging than the alternative.

My child with ASD is in mainstream school and relies on the kindness and inclusion of other kids to be able to get through the day. His social skills are shit (unsurprisingly) and he's often found annoying, irritating or weird by other kids.

In your rush to take care of your own you're willing to throw my kid under the bus. There are always shades of grey. Try to be more human, not because you're women but because if we don't where does it stop?

It’s easier just teach your children that some ppl are “tricky”

That adults shouldn’t need “help” from a child. That adults would really only ask another adult for help!!

That it is OK to say no to an adult/other person and “hurt their feelings” they can handle it!

I think what might have helped me as a child and young woman would have been that we are all kind and courteous and polite, but if the other person breaks that social contract you are totally free to tell them to fuck off, make a fuss and 'tell on them'.
I think predatory men use the knowledge women will be polite and won't make a fuss to get away with more 'minor' assaults such a small groping in pubs etc, which I've had a lot of.

I think schools have to deal with troubled children that they can't really cope with and pushing the other kids to include them is something they do to try and plug the gap in the lack of support they can offer.

for the entire world to cease to value kindness because a girl was once creeped out is a bit extreme.

This. It's not that hard to teach both. I tell my daughter that she should insist that others treat her with respect, I also tell her to be inclusive and kind.

All virutes are vices when taken to the extreme. It's about empathy for others, not sublimating your own will to everyone else.

It's unclear what the stalker child was actually doing and whether or not the school actually tackled stalker child's behaviour with the child and her mother to try and stop it.
There is a middle ground between not having to socialise with someone you don't like and ostracising them and then never walking up staircases alone.
It sounds as though the school put up cameras an moved the writer's daughter rather than tackle problem child and try and get her behaving more appropriately

And adults too. Jeffrey Dahmer reeled his victims in by pretending to need their help.

And Ted Bundy.

I think the real problem here is not kindness but inclusion. The mother is telling the kid to include everyone. Why? Seriously who does that? Adults certainly do not, we all have people we avoid like the plague, why teach different values to kids who have their own sense about who to get on with and who to avoid. Just to reach them to try and be kind but sometimes it doesn't work out.

The article is a bit OTT but I do kind of get the thinking behind it.

I think it is very difficult at times to find the line between kind compassionate and inclusive and putting yourself in danger.

Having said that the article is written in a way that indicates that anyone different or in need of being inclusive is somehow dangerous / a stalker.

People may not always have the best social skills but they aren't usually the dangerous ones. In fact they are usually more the victims.

Ime it's the ones who on the surface look to be popular and confident who have a group of followers behind them that cause more of the problems. The ones you wouldnt feel you hand to be kind or inclusive to as they had friends etc

I think also we don't typically pressure adults to be kind and inclusive of people who are detrimental to them so why do it to children? I mean it's worse for children, adults at least have more life experience and ability to get away from people whereas children are more vulnerable.

That woman is an idiot. Sounds like she did indeed spend lots of time talking - at rather than with her daughter. And zero time listening.

Because in my experience children have a massive sense of fairness (admittedly in their early years often a one sided version thereof ) so I would imagine her daughter did tell her - and the mother overrode every uncomfortable feeling her daughter expressed with a relentless message of "being kind to this child is more important than your own emotional and physical well-being". Female socialisation, and this woman chose to be the Aunt Lydia delivering it.

It should be pretty obvious to anyone who's been through the school system themselves that there are disruptive pupils it's unpleasant to be around. You can say to your child "this behaviour may not be their fault -family background, etc - but it's still okay not to want to tolerate the behaviour."

DS's primary were good on this. Inclusion is about group games. It's okay to be selective about your one-on-one friendships (so long as you're polite to others). It's not okay to have a big playground game that includes everyone but one child.

I too no longer preach kindness and inclusivity. I used to, then as the writer says "I fed my child to a lion".

My DS2 is the sweetest child. At his new school he was excluded by parents manipulating friendships. This ended but then he went through 2 years of bullying about his weight and was called "fat and ugly" by one child. This ended up with DS not eating, weighing himself, having body image issues and being really down. The school did nothing until I lost it and only then did very little.

In the end I managed to turn my sons confidence around and gave him permission to stand up for himself whatever the consequences as I would deal with them. I told him to tackle unkindness with unkindness back.

Over the years I've been handed loads of excuses about bullies not having a good home life, not happy etc. Most of the time this was an excuse. Some kids are just not very nice and turn out to be not very nice people. Let's stop making excuses for everything and call it out when we see it. Behaviour is deteriorating in our schools and society. There is not a positive correlation from being kind and inclusive to everyone and better behaviour. Its just a PC bullshit exercise. Often including one person (e.g. a bully) means a handful of other people become excluded such as children who will avoid hanging out with others around them, going to parties and even leaving the school which I have seen many times.

I never tell my kids to be kind. I tell them it's fine to not like people, or play with them, or include them. My only rule is to be polite.

I'm always wary of teaching children to 'be inclusive' without any caveats as, like it or not, there's always going to be a line between people you can include and those you can't for some reason.

'Be kind' though is a healthy message imo as long as you remember to teach that's be kind to everyone, which includes yourself! And as long as you're clear what kindness is. Putting up with someone harassing you wouldn't be kind to them, it encourages them to continue and one day get in serious trouble, and it's not kind to you so you wouldn't do it. Being kind isn't the same as putting up with anything and everything.

I think teaching kids that it's OK to say no or move away when someone makes you uncomfortable is so important. Inclusion is a pretty nuanced concept however simple we try to make it nowadays and adults don't always get it right

I agree that the ‘be kind’ mantra is detrimental to a lot of girls and women, we’re already often socialised to be polite over prioritising our own boundaries.

we realized that good kids can be more easy target.

And adults too. Jeffrey Dahmer reeled his victims in by pretending to need their help. If your gut is saying don't do it, then don't, is something everyone should be taught as a child.

I think the point the mother in the story is trying to make, albeit a bi awkwardly, is that her daughter tried to tell her that she wasn't comfortable with this other kid and instead of backing her child up she basically pressured her into forming a relationship she didn't want to have. My answer would have been to ask the child why she felt uncomfortable, and then actually listen to what she says. Don't just assume kids aren't being "nice" enough - kids have gut instincts too, and should start learning to trust them early.

The argument that it's unkind to be uncomfortable with the man who your gut is telling you is getting something sexual out of forcing his way into your spaces wouldn't work on so many women if society didn't start grooming them into that response as children.

My mother taught me to put my own safety first and that if anyone was making me feel uncomfortable then my first priority was getting myself out of that situation. She taught me not to feel guilty about looking after myself and not to put my own needs aside to meet the needs of others.

At the time I was just a kid so I didn't realize that wasn't the norm, especially for parents raising a girl. Now I'm more grateful to her than I could ever express, and I'm doing my best to teach my niece the same things.

Put your own lifejacket on first, always.