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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

First Trans Pride in London this weekend

94 replies

FeminismandWomensFights · 13/09/2019 10:07

www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49447918

Quoting Get the L Out Flowers
But the actual issues that mean there are a serious clash of rights is not being represented clearly or fairly by the Beeb.
It’s not about feminists just being meanies FFS.
Also the organisers of this Pride/protest have a raised fist on their promo for their event Hmm.

OP posts:
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TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 00:55

Note - there is no extra step four. But maybe there should have been - contributions welcome.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 19/09/2019 00:54

Step one - Salt circle, except replace the salt with glitter

Step two - Incense

Step three - The ceremonial declaring of the identity, followed by passionate speaches about biological sex being a social construct

Step four - Wait for demons to appear

Step five - Wait some more

Step six - Still no demons! Try to goad them into turning up by sending them die in a fire messages on Twitter

Step seven - Report them to the police for not responding

Step eight - Starting to get hungry and cold now, find token transman and accuse them of transmisogyny for not having gone for coffee and snacks yet

Step nine - Oh look look there's an older woman with short hair in the distance, have the demons arrived? Everyone stand up, placards at the ready, and start screaming at her about her bigoted aversion to ladypenis

Step ten - She looks confused and is walking away. Is she allowed to do that? Call police again to point out that not sticking around to be shouted at by randoms is a hate crime

Step eleven - Wait is the march over? The demons must have attacked at a different point on the route.

Step twelve - No one saw them? Well then they must have been in disguise. Begin accusing each other of being secret TERFs. Call the police again to report anyone who gets bored and tries to go home for not taking transphobia seriously enough.

Step four -

BatShite · 19/09/2019 00:45

Mind, you would think the 'nah, theres only a hundred or so in the country' lot would click on, when they also brag about having 50k terfs on their blocklists. Do they really convince themselves that each of the few hundred terfs have 500+ accounts?! Its insane really. Mind, a lot of stuff to do with this ideology is.

BatShite · 19/09/2019 00:42

It must be kind of awkward for TRA strategising that TRFS are apparently at the same time: a few nasty ‘feminists’ who don’t represent anyone else especially feminists hmm and also.. a massive threatening horde thats big and scary and anti-democratic enough to want to threaten a gathering of male-bodied people from meeting up.*

Ha. Yes. Also, terfs are literally just a handful of people online with multiple accounts who spend all day and all night sockpuppeting to make it look like there are more terfs than they are. But this handful of people who live online doing this, are definitely scary enough to warrant 30 pages of 'what to do if these demons appear?!?!?!!' plans, when there is going to be a large meeting of mainly male bodied people.

TheProdigalKittensReturn · 17/09/2019 20:00

So presumably the campaign demand must be for trans people, as a group, to be put at the front of the queue for public services? But why is that merited? based on what?

Is it that or have our TRAs just not got any ideas of their own so they're cribbing policy from their American brethren?

ChattyLion · 17/09/2019 19:55

It must be kind of awkward for TRA strategising that T*RFS are apparently at the same time: a few nasty ‘feminists’ who don’t represent anyone else especially feminists Hmm and also.. a massive threatening horde thats big and scary and anti-democratic enough to want to threaten a gathering of male-bodied people from meeting up. Which is it?

KatvonHostileExtremist · 16/09/2019 21:05

Rose of Dawn has got the most horrific screeching audio of some woman. Painful.

Ereshkigal · 16/09/2019 20:44

Tsk. Everything needs to be about them.

MrGHardy · 16/09/2019 17:27

So gay pride has for years now been all about trans, but now they need their own pride, too? Does that mean gay pride can next year be about homosexuality or does that also still need to be about them?

BuzzShitbagBobbly · 15/09/2019 22:05

I'm waiting for all the mass reports of masked women stalking the march, issuing threats, shouting and herring over speeches, following participants, threatening people and issuing malicious threats of violence/death/bombs etc.

Come on all you lurking trans activists - this is your moment to shine! Show the world how we nasty women behave!

Stiiiiillll waiting.

Think I'll be here a while.

This diary doesn't have an entry for "twelfth of never".

Tyrotoxicity · 15/09/2019 21:02

I can't help but think that if they're so concerned about the right to healthcare and housing, maybe they should stop blaming women for the lack of access, and instead focus their agitation towards the people dismantling social housing and the NHS.

FeminismandWomensFights · 15/09/2019 20:36

The BBC articles about this event said it was to demand trans people’s ‘rights’ to a whole list of things like healthcare and housing etc. Which in the UK we have allocated us by priority and individualised professional assessment of need (if the state is providing it).
So presumably the campaign demand must be for trans people, as a group, to be put at the front of the queue for public services? But why is that merited? based on what?

Some of the demand for ‘rights’ also seems to be about demanding unquestioning acceptance and personal validation. Not things that any of us can demand from other people by ‘right’. Again what is this merited on?

OP posts:
MsMcWibble · 15/09/2019 16:17

So it was a 'joke'? Hilarious.
This hardly makes it better.
Saw Ani from Speak up 4 Women NZ got a similarly 'funny' joke sent to her, among other rib ticklers.

First Trans Pride in London this weekend
terryleather · 15/09/2019 14:09

^
Oppressor class therefore latches onto the language of "rights" as an effective mechanism for making unreasonable demands.^

That about sums it up.

Michelleoftheresistance · 15/09/2019 13:45

Ah apologies. Id only seen the actual tweet 'joke', not that one.

Although those who should be rushing to prevent having a community discredited is the trans community. I'm sure we'll see dozens of TRA tweets emphatically distancing themselves from this tweeter and stating that the trans community vehemently disagree with violence, threats and 'jokes' about murdering women regardless of those women's beliefs, and this is unacceptable and damaging to trans people.

They'd be absolutely right. I'll wait with bated breath for those tweets to appear.

Propertyofhood · 15/09/2019 13:21

No, it says in the tweet that 'The first Trans Pride involved ceremonies depicting the hanging of women'. This, as far as I understand, is not true. There were no such ceremonies.

We don't need to lie or embellish in order to get our point across, we already have more than enough ammunition.

The person who made up the original tweet is indeed a sick fuck.

First Trans Pride in London this weekend
Michelleoftheresistance · 15/09/2019 13:13

Oh for Gods sake.

The only thing anyone's complained about re that tweet is how sick a fuck you have to be to joke about hanging women and find a picture to illustrate it.

Males joking about hanging women who say no to them, and your main concern is that women may be getting cross about it not nicely and carefully enough for anyone to deign to listen to them.

Propertyofhood · 15/09/2019 13:05

What has been tweeted there though isn't true is it? There wasn't a 'hanging a TERF' ceremony. It was someone making a joke about hanging women and using a photo from elsewhere (as far as I understand anyway).

Which is still fucked up and still shows these people for what they are, but I think people need to ensure that it's all kept factual, otherwise its just used to discredit what we are saying.

MsMcWibble · 15/09/2019 12:46

The tweet about terf hanging upthread seems to have disappeared, but here is another:
twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1173182746128257026

Tyrotoxicity · 15/09/2019 12:34

Yep, terry - and the missing link that the = symbol obscures is "expectation".

A demand is an expectation of how others will behave, forcefully expressed, yes? It's the force that makes an assertion into a demand.

A right is an expectation of how others will behave, which we're currently being taught that we ought to have and so must assert. Degree of force variable and at the discretion of the individual.

Oppressor class therefore latches onto the language of "rights" as an effective mechanism for making unreasonable demands.

terryleather · 15/09/2019 11:24

I don't understand. They are the same as everyone else, but their rights aren't the same? What rights don't they have?

It all becomes clear once you realise that it's got nothing to do with actual rights.

So called trans rights = trans demands.

Like so much of their agenda it's a power play.

Tyrotoxicity · 15/09/2019 11:14

I don't understand. They are the same as everyone else, but their rights aren't the same? What rights don't they have?

What they don't have is a solid understanding of what other people mean by rights, or what international law means by rights. They're divining a principle and overextending it, and because they only have a very rough idea of the principle they've misapplied it in a really unhelpful direction.

Since we're on the subject of what rights people don't have yet, I was absolutely appalled recently when I discovered "right to bodily autonomy" is absent from the declaration of human rights. We all assume we already have it, but legally? We don't. Not yet.

The legal system of human rights was conceived and written and implemented by patriarchy. It's got disadvantaging women built into it on multiple levels. That's why they're allowed to invoke "freedom of speech" rights and we're not - because our right not to be faced with death threats disguised as jokes isn't an agreed human right.

Michelleoftheresistance · 15/09/2019 10:47

Actually I'm furious about that. That's joking about murdering women. It's in plain fucking sight. You want actually illegal hate speech and imagery, there it is. That's who this movement is. That's what this movement stands for. And they're wholly open about it.

Fuck. That.

Michelleoftheresistance · 15/09/2019 10:45

We're just here to celebrate our identity and seek our rights, and joke about murdering women who don't bow down to us.

Whatever. We're here to point out the steaming hypocrisy and male abusers. Oddly enough, we can do it without violence or even threats.

Propertyofhood · 15/09/2019 10:40

These reports of violence and threats are the trans version of Iraq WMD’s.

That's it isn't it?

It's just total manipulation to get their way.

Is there even one example of a trans person being physically attacked by a feminist woman? One?

Or do they just hate women so much that even the mere presence of a woman in their vicinity is an 'assault'?

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