Pronouns, again.

Bit of a tangent but what’s happening in other countries such as France where it’s not just pronouns but adjectives and other word ending that would have to change? Is this being adopted over there too?

Or,
"My pronouns are: Ontologically / Sex / Based"

To the Writer of that article: this has been the whole fucking point we’ve been trying to drill into your skull since this crap started - it ‘feels regressive’ because it fucking is regressive. Gimme strength.

Yes!

Oooh I like the idea of demanding honorific pronouns from other languages I'd love to read up on how the sociolinguistics of honorifics is negotiated in languages such as Japanese. Indeed, I've read social media posts asserting that female pronouns should be regarded as honorifics... we earn them by being female bodied and surviving male abuse/oppression.

Anyway, I think I'm going to go with the "say what you see" approach... it's low key, but fully in the spirit of standing against the compelled speech aspect of gender based pronoun stipulations.

"This idea that we are in control of our own identities and that they do not have to be negotiated with the society we live in is not global by any means."
TBH, I don't believe anyone has control of their own identity anywhere anyway.

I find the idea of 'I identify as ...' absolutely ludicrous. I have never regarded my 'identity' as something I can choose. I am identifiED by those who are outside me looking in. Me looking out, I can't see my identity.

As Robert Burns said: (I'd better Anglicise it )

Oh would some Power the gift to give us
To see ourselves as others see us!
It would from many a blunder free us,
And foolish notion:

Could my pronouns be Just/Fuck/Off ?

That's the case in Indonesian and Timorese languages SonEtLumiere. Dunno about Viet.

In Indonesian, you have familiar pronouns for yourself and others, whereas in Timorese you add the word "greatness" to the end of the "you" pronoun. Sort of like "your lordship".
Interestingly though, neither language has tiered third person pronouns, nor are they gendered. In both languages everyone is dia or nia.

I’m totally down with this. Will implement the RWCA at first available opportunity.

"What are your pronouns?"

"I refer m'learned friend to the Walker ruling, 14919."

In most south African languages there is only one pronoun for humans as distinct from animals and things. So not gendered in any way. And you will be given a name depending on how people find you whether you like it or not. This idea that we are in control of our own identities and that they do not have to be negotiated with the society we live in is not global by any means. Knowing the difference between a male person and female person is a global phenomenon however. Funny that!

When I get handed a badge I will write "guess!" On it.

say what you see

can we call this the Roy Walker Catchphrase Approach? Because then you can answer with “it’s good but it’s not right”. I’m determined to make this catch on.

I’m totally down with this. Will implement the RWCA at first available opportunity. [thumbsup]

Actively announcing myself as a she/her makes it seem like I’m making my entire identity about my gender, which feels regressive.

Jesus fucking wept will someone tell me what ID politics is all about if it’s not about making entire identities about fucking gender?

To the Writer of that article: this has been the whole fucking point we’ve been trying to drill into your skull since this crap started - it ‘feels regressive’ because it fucking is regressive. Gimme strength.

As for ‘passing privilege’ don’t get me fucking started on eating your own. I’d feel sorry for the doxxed and chased off sm transperson by the more woke than thou if it weren’t for the fact that person helped fucking make this.

It’s the totalitarianism of it that gets me. That person going on and on and on in a Facebook(?) post because someone said something they disagree with. As if one person sharing their discomfort with pronoun checks is a hate crime.

How many people are non-binary? So few that a pronoun check could only serve to highlight their non-binariness and make them the focus of the entire round of pronoun checks. Of course if you’re an attention-seeing narcissist then that’s what you want but it’s a lie to say that pronoun checks cause no harm. They do cause harm because they center gender and connect it immediately with a person’s name and self.

All it does is reinforce gender norms. It concentrates the mind on who is male and who is female in a room - because, yes, wokerati, the vast majority of people, 98% at least, are still just boring old men and women - and since being female puts us in a subordinated class of people, that’s harmful. I couldn’t think of a better way than a pronoun check to ensure that all listeners are primed to ignore and marginalise all the self-declared she/ her voices.

"say what you see

It’s like Roy Walker on Catchphrase. You can follow it with

It’s good, but it’s not right"

Loving that, NotBadConsidering .

say what you see

Pleeease can we call this the Roy Walker Catchphrase Approach? Because then you can answer with “it’s good but it’s not right”. I’m determined to make this catch on.

Titania McGrath:

twitter.com/TitaniaMcGrath/status/1172640549494546432

"Please do NOT deadpronoun Sam Smith.

They has always been they/them, no matter what the haters say.

And if they call them him they will have them arrested."

What’s the best way of dealing with pronoun introductions as a GC feminist? (I belong to a social group where “preferred pronouns” are mandated in the group agreement, but we’ve never actually been asked to state them… yet).

Faux-naivety - “what’s a pronoun?”

Grey-rock - “whatever, I don’t mind, say what you see”

Angry-confrontational - “Pronouns are like rohypnol and are coercive control gaslighting bullshit”

Out-ridiculousness the ridiculousness - “I identify as a gender neutral Icelander, so therefore my pronouns are það, því and þess. Please pronounce them correctly and use them in their rightful declensions.”

Contrapoints tweet of evil here.

And the individual goes on and on. Cos that's not batshit at all, nope, no no no

I've found contrapoints an engaging watch actually. I don't agree with all of what they say, but I think they come across well.

I've watched the rabid TRAs turn on Natalie with no surprise at all. There are rules see. And then there's the total jealousy.

Pronoun badges are ridiculous and a waste of time IMO but at least you're actually interacting with the person involved.

The thing is that ON HERE it's coercive control and bullying trying to enforce rules around 'misgendering' because we can't know for a fact the pronouns of people who haven't told us.

If we're not going by sex, what are we basing it on? Length of hair? Lots of old school rockers who were men had long hair.

Miranda Yardley is a transsexual who dresses in a feminine way but I happen to know that he uses correct sex pronouns because I've read his blog. But if I'd only ever heard about him or seen a picture, I wouldn't know what his pronouns were. I'd know his sex though.

I don't know the pronouns of most people directly. MN trying to impose pronouns on us when they and we haven't even had a direct discussion with the people involved is bullying.

Absolutely, Stealth. Voicing any kind of critical thinking around the current gender ideology is on the banned speech list. No independent thought of any kind is permitted on the pronouns front. It’s literal violence!

My kitchen table on the other hand is a she. If you refer to her using 'it' that is literal violence.

I'm going to get in first on the next fad. My dog has gender neutral pronouns. Ze says it suits zer better.