Margaret Atwood defends women's right to work in strip clubs because she thinks it's 'empowering'

Here's the "ask me anything" from a retired lap dancer. And bugger me. Repeats almost word for word what I've said

Then another two dancers pop up to share that yes, this is their experience too. Wondering if they've crossed paths over their careers. The bond between the girls. What a great time they had Christ. This is looking like the common experience. Fuck. We can't allow that now can we!!

Don't panic though... here come all the "feminists" calling the three of them liars, so desperate for it not to be the case they even start up with "I think this is obviously fake, OP is a man with strip club fantasies" and trying to report the OP. MNHQ then tell them she's not a fake anything. Ohhhhhhhhhhh the "feminists" can't bear it

You can't make this shit up. Well. The darling "feminists" can if it doesn't suit their views.

Literally word for word my vet example above on PP

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3288751-retired-lap-dancer-ask-me-anything?pg=32

Because I'm 5ft 4.

@Courtney555 you've shrunk, you used to be 5ft5".

sadly we don't have saggy tits. Sorry if you do.

I don't no, and mine are actually real.

The projection from Atwood is astounding. Feminists do not murder men. Feminists do not want to murder men. But men murder women - quite a lot. Feminists do not want to kill baby boys. But men kill baby girls, so much so the there’s millions of missing girls worldwide.

Yes, WeeBisom. And even more astounding when you recall that one of the experiences that got her started on imagining the world of Gilead was a visit to Afghanistan where she saw women in chadors. She once said that there's nothing in The Handmaid's Tale that wasn't actually happening to women, somewhere in the world, at the time she wrote it. And yet now she comes out with that quite extraordinary piece of DARVO-by-proxy.

I actually find that even more worrying than her promulgation of the happy hooker myth.

I heard the interview and yes the article is accurate. Well done the Mail. Doubt the Guardian will have bothered. Atwood really riled me with her ignorance and lazy stereotypes of happy strippers and hate-filled feminists.

Are you calling me fat, Wee?!

The projection from Atwood is astounding. Feminists do not murder men. Feminists do not want to murder men. But men murder women - quite a lot. Feminists do not want to kill baby boys. But men kill baby girls, so much so the there’s millions of missing girls worldwide.

As for Courtney, I’m highly amused at the idea of her in an exclusive club earning hundreds a night, playing children’s party games with polite respectful gentlemen willing to pay thousands for the privilege, and having her peace disturbed by nasty, fat, middle aged feminists yelling abuse.

Jesus are you smoking those crayolas?!

I ask again ... why are you denying this happens to lots of other women? It's ignorant and offensive.

But you're obviously hotter and much more clever than me so I'll bow out now

Re: Old West America and brothel madams in the wild west.

The book "Upstairs Girls: Prostitution in the American West" by Michael Rutter details the historic truth, and it is very, very much not how the enormously wealthy Atwood fantasizes it is.

from a review:

"A veteran writer with some three dozen books to his credit, Rutter pulls no punches as he explores the role of prostitution in the West, why women became hookers, what their lives were like, and hazards of the occupation including disease, violence, pregnancy and addiction. He also examines the notorious Chinese sex trade, in which the youngest of girls were sold into a life of slavery then discarded like a worn bedspread when they no longer generated profit for their masters.

Rutter is at his best when he provides profiles of individual prostitutes and the few who actually left their profession with a bankroll capable of funding a new life, far from the watered-down whiskey, glassy eyes and sagging mattresses associated with upstairs girls.

The author also touches on numerous Colorado, Wyoming, Montana and South Dakota boomtowns and brothels that attracted droves of soiled doves and dancehall girls – places like Deadwood and Lead.

From Big Butt Annie and Raunchy Rachel to Big Nose Kate and Nellie the Pig, Rutter provides a less-than-titillating but highly readable account of the “working girls” who rarely ruled the West and more often, simply served those who did."

"'The first time I was in a strip club ......'

Clearly didn’t prevent you from returning."

I'm not sure what your point is, please explain. Which one of these did you make the leap of assuming I was:

a customer
a stripper
a bartender
an alcohol sales rep
a bouncer
other
?

If anyone claimed to speak on behalf of our entire professions, and said “Everyone looooves it! Empowerment woo hoo! No issues here!!”

All together now in the Lego Movie song! 'Everything is awesome! Everything is cool when you're part of a team!'

Two degrees and bouncy boobs

I’m always amazed at how many people with controversial opinions always seem to have two degrees

(End of derail - well done to everyone steering clear) ✌️

Gotta be sceptical of “everyone in X work loooooves it!”

I enjoy my job and am treated well. And yet. I know at the junior levels, people can be overworked to the point of illness.

My sister is a doctor - female colleagues of hers have faced sexual harassment.

If anyone claimed to speak on behalf of our entire professions, and said “Everyone looooves it! Empowerment woo hoo! No issues here!!”

I’d be

And I’d wonder what their agenda was.

WWBD?

Sorry, Pankhurst, but the inadvertent irony of this made me giggle. If it's any consolation, just before I submitted my PhD thesis I had to do a find and replace for "pubic" / "public" as I constantly kept mistyping the latter.

Apologies for lowering the tone. As you were . . .

Lol, At least it made you laugh.

It’s a tone-deaf statement at best

Indeed it is.

Stumblein I think you are absolutely right when you say this the "feminist box" is the one that the media has created. The media are forever assigning feminists one behaviour/ thought process after another. It leaves little room for the differences of opinion in feminism or for the fact that liberal feminism is largely based around not appearing too critical of patriarchy just in case feminsts are thought of as 'mean' - a similar reason as to why many women denounce it.

I didn't really consider that second form of 'feminism' (inverted commas because it isn't any form of feminism I believe in) - the man hating kind - there is no feminism I am aware of which thinks "all male babies should be killed at birth". I think it is interesting and indicative of the negative PR job which is done on feminism that anyone should think that is feminist and that people say things like that - as if they wish (again) to distance themselves as far as possible from anything which overly criticises the patriarchy. Because if they did they would attract the same kind of backlash and viciousness that people like Germaine Greer and Julie Bindel receive.

Crayola feminism 😂
I couldn’t be bothered to wade through it all either, I stopped at fake feminists. Seems everyone can self id and fake being a woman but fake feminists need to be called out 😂

And so sad that two women who in terms of their writing would obviously research and think things through chose to just take an off the self charactature (spelling?!) of feminism.

Right? It's like those disclaimers they put at the beginning of a book or movie: "Any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead, is entirely coincidental." or " the content does not represent the views of...". So, in effect, these 'feminist' novelists are basically saying "Yes, I'm writing this and putting these words and thoughts in the heads and mouths of my characters but just because I'm writing about undesirables feminists doesn"t mean I actually am one - I luurves me the menz."

And it's 'caricature' btw.

That’s an interesting point Stumbledin. So her views are still shaped by her younger experiences of women’s lib when the prevalent method to suppress the development of feminism was to label it anti- men rather than pro-women. I’m a child of the 70s and grew up believing feminism was anti-men, the understanding that it is in fact pro women was later on for me and the realisation, very liberating. Shunning the ‘wrong’ type of feminism means you retain the coveted approval of the patriarchy. This makes the actions of the women who carved out women’s only refuges, feminism in action, even more inspiring.

I think her comments about feminism are sadly similar to those made by Doris Lessing.

I think this is a good comparison, Stumbledin. If you're a writer, I think you're painfully aware of the danger of alienating your readership if you take a stance on political issues that could in any way be construed as "extreme" (even if it isn't). Some writers stay very carefully quiet about political and social issues (I have some in particular in mind - but since they aren't saying, I won't speculate), others very publicly align themselves with what they perceive as "middle ground" (I'm a "he-for-she" type of feminist type of assertion), and only a few nail their colours unequivocally to the mast (John Scalzi would be a prime example of this last).

Crayola feminism just about sums that poster up . I prefer that to the term "liberal feminism" and will use that instead in future!

Far too tired from writing an actual academic feminist paper today to wade through Courtney's recent tripe.

Totally not goady. Especially that first bit. About the Crayola.

I appreciate spelling it out is flying spectacularly over the fake feminists heads. And as I have neither the time or the Crayola to explain it further to those that are too ignorant or self righteous to understand, I'll leave you with a GCSE level version of it....

One "vet" speaks to the papers. Headline reads "My hell in back street practice, where I wanked off 20 labradors a day to make a living"

The rest of the vet community: "what the holy fuck???? Where the hell are you even working, that's not what vets do??!!"

Fake feminists: "We must stand together to save the vets. Poor exploited degraded vets!!"

Vet community: "Er, Hi? Can you fuck the fuck off with your patronising and very incorrect views on us. We're fine. That's not reflective of our industry at all. Thanks."

Fake feminists: "These poor deluded vets don't even realise they're being exploited. They don't even realise it's wrong to be wanking off labradors. However shall we save them, strong educated women that we are"

Vet Community: "Ok. That's enough now. Stop reading shit you know nothing about. It's offensive and utter crap. I'm telling you as a vet, that's not our job. In fact, there's 20 of us right here to tell you that. We are very proud of what we do thanks. You're actually really fucking rude with your unfounded opinions, just exactly how up your own arse are you to tell a whole community of vets they don't know what their own career entails"

Fake feminists: "Denial!! All denial!! Look what the veterinary industry has done to you!! We have our evidence!!"

Vet Community: (collective facepalm) "Literally can't explain this any simpler to you. It seems for some reason you don't want to accept we're more than fine. But eagerly want to jump behind the bizarre one off story from the papers. Tell you what, you do you my lovelies, and enjoy your clueless crusade. We're going to carry on being just fine regardless. Please find the elusive lone Labrador wanker and give them all the help they need. Ta-ra"

Fake feminists: "Close the veterinary practices!! Save the vets! We shall not be silenced!"