Margaret Atwood defends women's right to work in strip clubs because she thinks it's 'empowering'

I first read Margaret Atwood at university (back in 1984!) as part of my favourite module, 20th century Canadian Women Novelists, and I've read most of her output since. I enjoy her writing and would especially recommend Cat's Eye and Alias Grace, but I don't really think of her as a feminist writer - some of her female characters are not at all sisterly!

There was a thing on Woman's Hour the other day about women in sci-fi in which the guests were very diplomatically avoiding voicing how pissed off they were with her 'speculative fiction not sci-fi' shtick.

Can’t stand the phrase chick lit

Ive a habit now of calling the male equivalent cock lit

Which can make random book conversations a bit difficult

This on Atwood, genre fiction and her responses to it: www.theguardian.com/books/2016/aug/10/speculative-or-science-fiction-as-margaret-atwood-shows-there-isnt-much-distinction

' the novel’s concession to pulp conventions undermines Atwood’s larger claim that the genre of speculative fiction is the antithesis of those cheesy, teenage male escapist fantasies about talking squids in outer space that are pulp novels'

A bit like 'chick flicks'?

Chick lit is the equivalent.

I have huge admiration for many such sneered at authors. Many are prolific story tellers. Nora Roberts (also writes as JD Robb) springs to mind.

I believe I've read all her books. With varying degrees of satisfaction, to be honest. But I found them quite readable.

My main issue is that if stripping is empowering, why aren't strippers powerful?

At the risk of returning to the flagged topic: as one of the "99%... middle aged, middle management, and overweight," uncool gang, I always think perspective trumps everything. I look back on my rather wild youth with a bit of a horrified sigh...
I DID THAT???? Even though it seemed really fun and I thought I was happy at the time. With the wisdom of hindsight, I know now that I was fooling myself.

That's interesting Charlie. Was Atwood's work classified as science fiction then but she didn't subscribe to that? She did make the point in her interview that the things she wrote about were based on things which happen to women and girls in the world right now so I did like that about her interview. I agree that there seems to be snobbery about literature v genre fiction. Would romance be at the bottom of the heap for sneering? A bit like 'chick flicks'?

And yes I see what you mean about not wanting to know authors' opinions on other things, probably wise. A bit like the quote about not meeting your heroes.

Ex-author here (shit fiction, definitely the very bottom of the literary pile), and can confirm I have scant knowledge over a very broad range of topics.

I've not read the Handmaid's Tale. I think I'm with you ShesDressed on just got a bit tired by Atwood's glibness and the overall ... neatness of her books. Overall there was a feeling of being too smug, too intellectually lazy to really examine the issues and take the necessary risks to uncover anything fresh.

Unless engaged in a particular kind of literary criticism, I prefer to know as little as possible about my favourite authors' private lives and opinions

I meet authors regularly for work related reasons. Mostly their opinions about matters beyond their own work are no better informed than the average bloke down the pub.

yes rufus i still think about the bank account thing sometimes when I go to the cashpoint. And when women are banned from Twitter for voicing GC opinions. You realise these institutions and platforms aren't neutral or everlasting things. How fragile our freedoms are.

Absolutely, and it also makes me think of the pictures of women in Tehran and Kabul when they were happy and carefree and unveiled. And then they weren't.

I read The Blind Assassin many years ago, and having forgotten the story, tried to reread it but wasn't pulled in. I haven't read tht but always meant to, yet resisted for some reason.
I too can't stand literary snobbism.

I'm a bit thrown by her recent comments but I enjoyed this interview with Atwood in the Times last weekend - Share token :

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/margaret-atwood-interview-the-handmaid-s-tale-author-talks-love-and-loss-ahead-of-new-book-the-testaments-bdl5k29fc?shareToken=3deaab9b41b254c9b98894519dfa50ac

I'm going to read The Handmaid's tale again before reading the Testaments

yes rufus i still think about the bank account thing sometimes when I go to the cashpoint. And when women are banned from Twitter for voicing GC opinions. You realise these institutions and platforms aren't neutral or everlasting things. How fragile our freedoms are.

I remember Surfacing as being far less clever than it thought it was. However, Atwood did do a really good book of short stories, nice and playful. Bluebeard's Egg, I think? She's perhaps good on noticing surface concepts, but perhaps lacks the depth to really cut to the heart of the things she's exploring.

Yes I think that is a good summary. I haven't read anything of hers for years. I sort of gave myself permission to avoid her because her books frustrated the hell out of me. And then every time I thought 'maybe I should give her another chance' I ended up regretting it because she just isn't as good as she or her press think she is. And since THT was filmed everyone seems to think she invented feminism. Which is rage inducing enough without her spouting this old bollocka.

Unless engaged in a particular kind of literary criticism, I prefer to know as little as possible about my favourite authors' private lives and opinions. Only learnt that lesson after ruining a few of them for myself.

However, Atwood's most recent musings don't change what I think of her because I've never felt like that in the first place. Because she's a bit of a literary snob. I rejected the notion that only Literature with a big L for literary value was worthy of attention. Which is why I did my master's on genre fiction. And Atwood, well, she did not like to be accused of writing genre fiction. Coz genre fiction is for intellectual plebs (or so it seems). There's an interesting aspect to the evaluation of genre fiction btw, a hierarchy of sorts, that very firmly puts women's fiction on the bottom once again.

Have you seen how many honourary degrees she has!!

barbara

No...though it looks like a doozie

And to "stick to the point" again, bravo to anyone (not that I have the first idea who Margaret Atwood is) who actually opens their ears and listens to the majority of us.

We don't need saving. And we don't need anybody telling us we're something we're not. You don't have to like that we're happy. A bit sad if you can't get your head round it, that's not our problem. But if you're looking for trafficked, exploited, unhappy, abused women, which I'm sure exist and do need a voice, oh boy, are you looking in the wrong place.

I absolutely love Carter's short stories, and I do love her writing but find it a bit like wading through treacle in wellyboots. Ragnarok was fierce, but I didn't finish it.

I remember Surfacing as being far less clever than it thought it was. However, Atwood did do a really good book of short stories, nice and playful. Bluebeard's Egg, I think? She's perhaps good on noticing surface concepts, but perhaps lacks the depth to really cut to the heart of the things she's exploring.

Rufus Orris and Crake or something like that? Sci fi? Only managed a few chapters.

I'm afraid I'm a "life's too short" reader. I read for fun, so if a book's not doing it for me after the first few chapters I move onto something else (about the only exception to this was Foucault's Pendulum, which took about three attempts - though on reflection the first half is brilliant but it then it goes down hill, unlike the Name of the Rose which is brilliant throughout).

antibles

I like THT because you could see how it could happen, shutting bank accounts etc

It wasnt a stretch...well not too much of a stretch

I don't think it's too hard to understand the industry Atwood claims is empowering, it's the amount of job satisfaction that can be derived from having your beef curtains inspected at close quarters that I would question. Men looked at my miff all night and gave me money when I sat on their knees, yay empowering.

Clearly though, a refresher on the accouting front will be needed if you have to work in that area going forward, regulations may have changed whilst you were tax evading the cash up your lady garden the past decade.