Margaret Atwood defends women's right to work in strip clubs because she thinks it's 'empowering'

You forgot, she’s also an expert on strip clubs worldwide!

One of her two degrees is actually on the history, culture and traditions of strip clubs globally.

Her dissertation simply said: They're all good.

I don’t like Margaret Atwood’s books.

Almost two decades ago, Canada had a visa program for strippers-oops, “exotic dancers”. It eventually was terminated due to a political scandal. The women on those visas didn’t view themselves as “empowered”.

www.google.com/amp/s/ottawasun.com/2012/07/05/former-sex-slave-applauds-stripper-visa-ban/wcm/d46d5ed5-6ac1-400f-92d9-4462aec695c6/amp

Ok....

I like Margaret Atwood's books, this does not mean that I have to agree with her on everything. I will still read her books.

I like my Dad and I don't agree with him on everything either (Brexit mainly). He is still my Dad.

Society should be richer for different views.

Courtney555" married accountant by day, sexy pizza scoffing stripper by night

You forgot, she’s also an expert on strip clubs worldwide!

LOL @Sallycanwait1**

And she'd nearly 40! That's one special lady. I thought most strippers only lasted until they were mid twenties. And she managed to carry on after bf her child. No saggy tits for her. Who is this superwoman?

LOL @Sallycanwait1.

PS. I didn’t post drugs are laundered there.

Tax evasion is rampant in the bar industry in Canada. Laundering the money is achieved by buying a club. That’s why most only stay open for short periods.

"Courtney555" married accountant by day, sexy pizza scoffing stripper by night.

What a woman(?)

@Courtney555, yes the vast majority of strip clubs in Canada are owned by bikers. Anyone working in law enforcement will tell you this.

Who said that? I didn't see that.

Woman above.

You seem to think I'm addressing you when I'm not...

Interesting it takes one tiny little note to point out it's largely down to women's insecurities, to touch a nerve and for you to start the "happy hooker" name calling. Definitely not diving head first into that stereotype at all

Who said that? I didn't see that.

Even though you've called me a teller of tall tales (liar) I don't condone judgement of your experiences and don't I condone anyone calling you names. My experience is mine and yours are yours - they're both valid.

Invalidate other women based on patriarchal stereotypes of being a mature woman (insecure, jealous, unattractive, overweight, nasty attitudes, etc).

Except I'm not though. I mean keep pretending I am by all means, doesn't make it any more true.

I don't invalidate them. I pity them. Feeling the need to go online, go into our place of work, acting either like mouthy fishwives to spout abuse at us, or to promote themselves as "Captain-Save-A-Ho" the feminist hero. Because they don't like what we do, so they spout equal abuse and dress it up as feminism. Disgraceful hypocrisy.

Again, if most of these people are middle aged that's not my problem. Couldn't give a rats arse whether they're 18 or 80. They're nearly always 40-50. Pretend that being aged 40-50 is something to be offended about if you want It's about all you can do, straws... clutch...etc...

I'm also finding it quite disconcerting that you are posting in Feminism Chat, partly about the joys of female comradeship, while denigrating other women's contrary opinions on the basis of their age and/or looks.

Halle- fucking -lujah

I don't fit the stereotype that was set out either. And I am irritated that someone speaking of empowerment would seek to invalidate other women based on patriarchal stereotypes of being a mature woman (insecure, jealous, unattractive, overweight, nasty attitudes, etc). No one spoke of Courtney's presumed attractiveness or lack thereof (I mean who gives a fuck?) but Courtney was quick to show the depth of her internalized misogyny - at least it is here for all to see as they consider her glorification of exotic dancing.

And while not important to my perspective the comments made by Courtney on this thread (directed at me specifically) attempted to invalidate my firsthand experience of attempted sexual exploitation. That recounted experience came years after rejecting the label "victim" and the comforting peace of incorporating being a "survivor" into my self-awareness. My response to the advance was only possible because I had moved beyond the past and found in myself a strength beyond reproach.

Ah, twisting things to suit, I see. You're perfectly aware of what I mean, just acting professionally offended for the sake of your arguement. This ain't mamas first rodeo with this nonsense.

The only unpleasant, abusive women are the ones coming into our clubs spouting off under the guise of feminism. If 99% of them happen to be middle aged, middle management, and overweight, I can't help that. That's what they are. If another common factor was that they were all blonde, I'd say so too. If you pretend to find those things offensive instead of descriptive then that's down to you. But then you know that already.

Feminists in particular don't want to see women being objectified and abused.

Problem is, they decide we're being abused on our behalves. And concoct sensationalist tripe to support their own misguided opinions and one poor soul of an ex dancer out of a thousand.

Interesting it takes one tiny little note to point out it's largely down to women's insecurities, to touch a nerve and for you to start the "happy hooker" name calling. Definitely not diving head first into that stereotype at all

I don't believe that I do fall into your stereotype. I just disagree that your feelings represent everybody else's experiences.

I'm also finding it quite disconcerting that you are posting in Feminism Chat, partly about the joys of female comradeship, while denigrating other women's contrary opinions on the basis of their age and/or looks.

@BitOfFun don't go falling into the stereotype...

I think a large part comes down to women's insecurities/jealousies/competitiveness.

I really don't agree. Feminists in particular don't want to see women being objectified and abused.

You are the expert on your own experience, but I don't think you should dismiss the many differing accounts as hysterical journalism flowing from the pens of unattractive middle-aged women. Are you saying that they are inventing these stories? Or that the women recounting them are lying? Or do you believe that professional reporters just dismiss 99 'happy hooker' tales just so they can publish one disturbing testimony?

In Canada, most strip clubs are owned by criminal motorbike gangs. They are a way to launder drug money.

Wtf. No they're not Jesus wept.

Although they are a way to launder money/evade tax full stop. It's not drug money though, people literally can't help but add crap like this

Most of the high value transactions are by card, because most people don't plan to spend £'000s before they've gone out, so for the say, £200+ amounts it's nearly always on card and they can't "hide" that. But there will be loads of £50's in cash taken throughout the night. For little dances. For stag shows on the stage. And like any bar, loads of drinks via cash. The club won't declare half of that. There's no drugs in that actual, true scenario though, sorry...

I don't like strip clubs or lap dancing clubs at all because a friend of mine had a husband who was addicted to them. He once spent £1,600 in one night (he told her the girls that gave him dances were high on cocaine). My other half has visited them before we got together and he once saw a live sex show in Amsterdam but if he ever visited one now I would pack his bag and show him the door.

Well I guess because your experiences of dancing in the UK is a veritable wilderness of empowerment it must be that way everywhere right?

And only you faceless people on the internet claiming to be a dancers can be believed?

What makes your words more valid than anyone else's?

Other voices recounting experiences are just as valid as yours regardless of your sense of self-importance.

In Canada, most strip clubs are owned by criminal motorbike gangs. They are a way to launder drug money. I doubt the women working in them feel empowered.

I think you nailed it. But I feel very empowered by having money. Money buys agency. And I never met anyone who was trafficked. I'm not saying more because I'd have to namechange. God the fantasists who exploit the sex trade to peddle their own bullshit sobstories that fit what people "think" it's like really wind me up.

So frustrating isn't it. When you've lived it, breathed it, know everything about it. Then there's some woman who knows sod all, peddling their stories like they've got any substance, and people believe their bullshit over our actual lives.

Glad you had a great time too, just like the rest of us

@BitOfFun

That's exactly our frustration as dancers. What people read is such balony. Then take it at face value. Actually, that's unfair... To one person, it might be slightly representative (after a journalist has finished sensationalising and exaggerating), but behind that story are the 999 rest of us shaking our heads, going "brilliant, more bollocks about us."

I think a large part comes down to women's insecurities/jealousies/competitiveness.

Many can't stand the idea that me (or my colleagues) can simply talk their partner/friend into parting with £1500 to essentially chat with us in our pants. Can't be true. We must be sucking this or that. Because if we're not, well, that means admitting we were just more attractive, or interesting, or sexy, or funny, or that DP will throw his money around on dancers. And many can't bring themselves to do that.

I'm married. I've got no problem with DH going in a strip club. By all means have a £50 dance. I'd be pissed off if he had a £480 dance because he's got a bloody good dancer for a wife. Would be like me paying £500 for a painter and decorator to come in, if I was married to one. So what have said, is if he goes in one, please tip the girls. It's respectful, and acknowledging you are in their place of work.

Should I be jealous? Hell no Christ on a bike, we don't want your husband. We want him to pay if he wants a dance, then we want him to bugger off so we can get in the changing rooms and finish our pizza!

I can also say, it's never attractive women that come in and give us grief. The typical is usually (but not confined to) women from around the ages of 40-50, always in a group, maybe on a hen do, or a works do, overweight, drunk, middle management types. And the stuff that comes out of their mouths? Shameful. These are the ones who will then say they're feminists