Seahorse BBC2 now

So many mixed feelings about this. I felt for Freddy quite viscerally when I heard the pain of labour but if that experience doesn't help you understand the relevance and importance of sex versus gender expression then I don't know what will. There is no value to the child in forcing courts to change mother to father, in fact there's probably a decent likelihood that you'll be storing up problems for them in future trying to explain absence of a mother. Mother isn't a gendered term, it's simply the word we use to describe the female who gave birth to a whole new human being. That's a sex thing, not a gender thing.

Mothers need clear definition and protection in law and anything or anyone who tries to muddle with that, without any consideration for wider effects, deserves all the pushback they get.

What could have happened in a young woman's life to cause such a visceral rejection of her own femaleness?

This is what I always wonder when I see young women whose drive to transition seems to be more because they don't want to be women than because they want to be men.

Freddy's mother says that Freddy was at university in Edinburgh, and was unhappy, and said 'I'm a boy and I want to be a boy, and I realise this is how I've been feeling all my life'. I wonder why Freddy suddenly thought that? Freddy's mother appears to have had no idea that Freddy felt like that.

Picking my words. The parent who physically gave birth to this child oops mother oops is very self-centred.
I think I was very self-centred when I gave birth to my first! Didn't last long after that, though. There was a baby to look after, care for, feed, keep clean, keep healthy, etc etc.
When you have a baby, you can no longer be self-centred.

And Freddie's reaction in 16 years, having produced a fine strapping young man who'll be more of a man than Freddie will ever be?....

Gosh, it's all so confused.......boys need male modelling, but also require a mother too........maybe Freddie can pull it off in the way that single mothers have to. I hope so! For the child's sake, and for Freddie.

Freddie is not all Trans people. Freddie is not attacking women’s sex based rights as a TRA, so why reference stuff that TRAs say?

Of course Freddie is attacking women’s sex-based rights. Freddie is trying to convince the High Court that men can give birth, and is using two major media organisations - the BBC and the Guardian - to do so. You can’t get more trans rights activist than actively taking your trans rights to the High Court. Freddie is a much more influential and significant TRA than the usual idiots who just spout stuff on Twitter.

It could end up as one of those families where the child resides with the grandparents!

Yes! Except the husband was a step-father and not a natal father. The natal father seemed to be a alienated. Mind you the step father did too.

I hope that Freddie de-transitions, in that s/he stops taking the hormones...and maybe goes to live with her mum. For her sake, and the baby's sake.

And Freddie's reaction in 16 years, having produced a fine strapping young man who'll be more of a man than Freddie will ever be?....

Couldn't get this out of my mind for some reason.

It could end up as one of those families where the child resides with the grandparents!

I hope that Freddie finds peace within themselves. I found the documentary quite sad, but not for the reasons Freddie would think.

You don't experiment with having babies

But that is exactly what has happened. My best hope is that Freddie's maternal instinct sees through - and that the child becomes more important than Freddie's feelings about identity.

Female capitulation.

Freddie cries during labour don't sound 'right', probably due to testosterone, the noise didn't evoke the same level of empathy in me as hearing a woman give birth

It certainly evoked empathy in me. Freddie was a woman when giving birth. Freddie is a woman, and a mother - in spite of the adopted and assumed male persona. ( & hormones)

A gay transgender man.

A woman, then.

A butch woman, but a woman nevertheless in a heterosexual relationship....

Freddie is a very self centred person

Started off that way -as most new parents do......but then the maternal instincts kicked in big time. I think that taking testosterone agin will be a big mistake both for Freddie and the child.

Barracker
Well said, as always.

She rejects her entire female self.
Patriarchy's end game.

I think the partner wasn’t born Male

As far as i could make out CJ was female. That CJ abandoned the relationship was interesting, and that was not explored. Both were very naive. As most first time parents are; but with added extra super dissonance of the true nature of their situation.

Cross post

GrinitchSpinach

Yes, McConnell is a Guardian journalist who is trying to register as the baby’s father than mother. McConnell lost the right to anonymity regarding that case - still before the high court as far as I am aware - mainly due to the fact that this documentary was made and it was all in the public domain.

Brilliant post Barracker

Previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3564619-The-Dad-who-gave-Birth

Previous thread addressing court ruling:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3639706-Trans-man-who-gave-birth-is-a-Guardian-Journalist?pg=1&order=

A strange experiment

You don't experiment with having babies.

Entitled little shit is now giving his mother a hard time about cleaning dog shit off the carpet. Oh my Gohhhhd- it's sooo stressful. If we have a war, we're all fucked

Oh for goodness sake, have some compassion.The nesting instincts had kicked in. Personally feel that Freddie will 'miss being a mother' when s/he starts testosterone again.

And what about the baby? The baby is now the most important thing in all of this. A strange experiment - and one that I hope all come out of intact.