Owl Fisher in the Guardian

But it has a population of only 300k. Everyone knows everyone else, so levels of trust are high. There are just over 100 prisoners in the entire country.

Mind. Blown.

It’s a bit different from here, then.

Which is which again? So they self ID as woodland creatures?

I watched a weird on-line documentary some time ago which had them in a small West Country market town leading chants of Transwomen are Women, Transmen are Men to bemused shoppers. Fox was asked what they would be doing if they were not "campaigning" and suggested their interest lay in handicraft (can't remember whether it was pottery, carpentry or something). They gave the impression that that was what they would prefer to be doing and that grifting did not come naturally. I sensed that Fox will have a life after the circus moves out of town. I'm less sure about Owl.

Aren’t ferret and vole a couple?

Man and woman have sex. Stop the Press! They are trying so hard, bless ‘em.

Needmore, I agree actually, in terms of dynamics and in your assessment of the relative brightness. Neither seem particularly blessed in that department, though.

Actually, that's not quite accurate. They collect all the labels like badges. They don't lay many of them down, because it may prove useful to whip them out when strategically useful...

BeMoreMagdalen what is also curious is that Owl tends to dominate the conversation with Fox barely getting a word in.

As if she is a man talking over a woman.

Pity really, as Fox seems more interesting and brighter.

Yes, I believe both Fox and Owl now claim the label NB. I suspect that, like the grifters they are, they saw the way the linguistic winds were blowing in the trans movement and that the next shift was that NB was going to be top of the pile.

Why just be a lesbian when you can be a transman? Why be a transman when you can be a trans man? And why be a trans man when you can be non binary?

But I thought that Owl was “non-binary”? I can’t keep up!

That kind of desperate, eye-rolling, sighing exasperation is evident if you watch Fox and Owl's youtube stuff, particularly the 'response' videos, which include one responding to a Mumsnet thread about the excreble drama Butterfly.

They read out of context comments, in an intonation that shows they haven't really RTFT, and sort of tut and shake their heads without ever seeming to grasp the arguments and points they are 'responding' to.

It's like Kevin the Teenager has become an accepted intellectual style of discourse.

How do some people get column inches? Really - do the know where actual bodies are buried?

‘When feminism supports trans rights, everybody wins – just like in Iceland”

Yup it’s womens job to support trans rights, trans people are under no obligation to return the favour.

Oh yeah, blimey, Iceland, that fine upstanding feminist led society that crashed their economy spectacularly....yup, they had equality at the forefreont at the time, sure did.
www.theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/06/iceland-pm-sold-bank-assets-hours-before-financial-crash-leaks-show
Campaigners have long railed against what they describe as endemic cronyism in Icelandic politics and the apparent impunity of the country’s wealthy few.

In early October 2008, the Glitnir, Kaupthing, and Landsbanki banks collapsed with liabilities of more than 11 times Iceland’s GDP, plunging the country into economic meltdown and a deep crisis from which it took years to recover: the Reykjavík stock market fell 97%, and the value of the króna halved.

The leaked documents show Benediktsson withdrew an initial ISK30m (just under £200,000 at the time) from Glitnir’s Sjoður 9 fund on 2 October, four days before the Financial Supervisory Authority (FSA) took control of the bank, and employees of the bank gave instructions for a further ISK21m (£140,000) to be sold on 6 October.

Hold on. I thought the Guardian was transphobic and also literal violence?

I wonder if Iceland will also change it's whole naming convention of dóttir/sson" for trans people there?

Hence too the whole "if you'd just let men in with you and do as you're told hey look, you might queue less!"

Point whizzes miles over their heads. It's a very weak gesture supposed to make letting men into single sex spaces look win win. On logic and on understanding women's needs and concerns it's unfortunately still profoundly fail fail.

This article reeks of desperation

They are all like this. It's the ongoing bewilderment from a narcissistic mindset that women keep on not doing what they're told and just existing only in relation to/as props for men with no independent needs or lives or anything like that.

There's a complete inability to comprehend life from women's perspectives, to value women as people, or to listen or engage with life from any perspective other than their own. Hence the flailing around trying to find some deep underlying evil like right wing extremism driving them. Women are Mum. They should just do what makes you happy. What's the matter with them that they won't??

This article reeks of desperation and hopefully indicates a stalling in the movement

Every article by Owl is like this, it's not new.

This article reeks of desperation and hopefully indicates a stalling in the movement

The author of the article does not explain why there is a 'bitter culture war over trans rights in the UK' nor do they address any of the concerns feminists have with the self id proposals.
They are dismissed as false narratives for political gain .

It's more of women be nice and everyone will be happy...

I'm increasingly replacing the word 'transphobia' with 'heresy' (a la Tudor England, Cardinal Wolsey, Off with their heads, the One True Faith) and seeing how that reads.

At least in the 21st century they try to persuade you that heresy makes you a bad person and is rooted in your clinging to silly out dated things like reality at least in the public newspapers as opposed to going straight to the death and rape threats. Owl hasn't yet tried the 'you'll burn in hell' warning but I'm sure they'll get there.

Iceland always does well when it comes to measures of women's rights, happiness, low crime etc. And undoubtedly it's a lovely place to live if you can deal with the long winters. But it has a population of only 300k. Everyone knows everyone else, so levels of trust are high. There are just over 100 prisoners in the entire country. I'm not convinced you can "scale up" Iceland's experiment to larger societies with looser social ties.

I'm nitpicking but...

Bandaranaike became Prime Minister on 21 July 1960. She was the first female prime minister in the world, and the first woman to be elected head of government.

Vigdís Finnbogadóttir was the first female president but that was 20 years later.

So accurate as she was the first elected President but also misleading in not mentioning a previous female political leader.

...and no Owl, I don't think Trans people are struggling to be heard, the silencing of women is pretty effective in elevating the voice of trans people and it continues so I disagree with that opinion that is stated as fact.

Trans people can now change their name and gender via a statutory declaration, and they also have increased access to necessary trans-related healthcare. As Sandra Rós – a trans woman – recalls, the system used to be far too complicated: “Before the new law, you had to be in the transition process and live under the ‘correct gender role’ for a year in order to begin taking hormones. Then you had to be in the transition process for a year and a half to be allowed to apply for a name and gender change.”

Iceland keeps excellent health records which are used as the basis for much research. By necessary trans-related healthcare it seems they mean getting hormones will now be a lot easier.

When the class-action lawsuits from detransitioners start it will be a hell of a row.

Governments will suffer eventually for making it easy for genderists to push non-girly girls towards "treatment" for their affliction with testosterone and mastectomies.

What would transgender people lose that they actually need by supporting women's rights and campaigning for their own complementary rights?

Control and power over people.

It's a much needed thing.