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Original poster

Just had a call from the Lib dems

32 replies

Patnotpending · 07/09/2019 17:40

Sam Bennett has just called me from the Lib Dems, seeking my support. This is him:

whocanivotefor.co.uk/person/26849/sam-bennett

Note 'he' is 'they' even though he described himself to me as a gay man. Perhaps he's a transman? Who knows in the wonderful world under the trans umbrella.

I said I wouldn't vote for the Lib Dems while they were supporting the idea that TWAW. He responded that he disagreed with me. I said did he really think that any man who declared himself to be a woman was a woman? He said he did and he also believed any woman who said she was a man was a man. He seemed to think that this display of trans equality solved the problem – a complete lack of insight into the women's rights issue.

I said I couldn't possibly vote for anyone who believed that and put the phone down. Anyway: if you're GC and you see Sam Bennett, Lib Dem on the voting slip, don't put a cross against him.

OP posts:
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Goosefoot · 09/09/2019 20:27

I like the question about the %, but the one about how to describe the group of people affected by having female bodies to me is the most important point.

I'd not ask anything about who people would have sex with, if they are honest goodness knows what answers you'd get.

popehilarious · 09/09/2019 14:42

"if your party was made up of 50% men and 50% transwomen would you consider that gender equality?" is my question.

I like this Maybe “what word do you use to describe the group of people who are discriminated against due to their potential ability to get pregnant? Who are paid less as a group due to this? Who may get cervical cancer, endometrial cancer, ovarian cancer, vulval cancer?”

FlyingOink · 09/09/2019 13:30

Updated answers attached.

Just had a call from the Lib dems
Just had a call from the Lib dems
endofthelinefinally · 08/09/2019 14:57

Another question:
Given that breast ironing is illegal and teachers are told to look out for it and report, are you happy for girls to be supported by schools/ teachers to wear breast binders that cause horrific damage?
I feel sorry for teachers.

sashh · 08/09/2019 14:40

Patnotpending

Do you think it is a human right for a man to have his genitals waxed by a woman?

Are you happy for a 6 year old girl to sleep in the same tent as someone with a male body they are not related to?

Trans people claim it is degrading for them to use the accessible toilet. Can you explain why it isn't degrading for disabled people or people changing a bay's nappy?

mooshbook · 08/09/2019 14:29

@HandsOffMyRights how so? would you be willing to go into more details about how you are politically homeless

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/09/2019 14:28

Yes, I thought Philip Lee's defection to the LibDems had precipitated several resignations from transactivists, including Jennie Rigg, Sarah Brown and Aimee Challenor. I don't know why Dr Lee is so unacceptable to them, but from what I've read about SB's utterances in the past they're well rid of that one.

I voted in the poll but had to go for Other. I can't see myself ever voting Conservative and I will definitely never vote for Brexit or UKIP. Have in the past voted for Labour, LibDem or Green, but currently struggle with all of them because of their unscientific, illogical, misogynistic stance on trans ideology vs women's rights. WEP ruled out on same grounds.

Brexit is massively important to me (I'm agin it) but so is this. Politically, I'm adrift.

endofthelinefinally · 08/09/2019 14:09

Is Aimee Challenor leaving the lib dems? I thought I read something about a move to labour?

HandsOffMyRights · 08/09/2019 13:18

I've been left politically homeless because of gender ideology, so a GE vote should be fun.

FlyingOink · 08/09/2019 13:04

The constant suggestion that women who are worried about losing our ability to define as a class are 1 step away from voting for fascists is getting pretty tiring tbh

Do people go onto sites where people discuss eg disability issues and ask them how important it is would they vote for nigrl farage. Answer is no.

Not my intention at all. I wanted to know how high a priority it was for other posters, and what they would/would not compromise on.

Also Farage is clearly not a fascist, Combat 18, National Action etc are fascists and those groups don't do very well in the UK. I'd describe him as a right-wing populist.

Finally, I'm not shilling for any party or politician. I was just interested in what compromises on other policy posters were willing to make to ensure women continue to exist in law.

LoafEater · 08/09/2019 12:54

Two words for any Lib Dem coming to my door - Aimee Challoner.

Our current unelected PM is my MP. He has quite a small majority. If he decides to run again in Uxbridge, I imagine the other parties will throw a lot of campaigning our way. I cannot wait for them to come to my door.

Fraggling · 08/09/2019 12:43

The constant suggestion that women who are worried about losing our ability to define as a class are 1 step away from voting for fascists is getting pretty tiring tbh

Do people go onto sites where people discuss eg disability issues and ask them how important it is would they vote for nigrl farage. Answer is no.

TheBullshitGoesOn · 08/09/2019 12:42

Can you still get FPFW postcards? Because I've run out.

Not that I am likely to get many canvassers as they CBA round here.

Fraggling · 08/09/2019 12:40

I skimmed the list and saw 2 trans specific things, no mention of sexism, racism, anything like that though, unless I missed something?

Are they old hat and boring now or something?

ThePurported · 08/09/2019 12:31

For example, if you were a remainer, but Nigel Farage was asked his view on TWAW, and stated that humans can't change sex and the Karen White scandal was a terrible indictment of policymaking to please activists without consideration of the consequences - for example - would you vote for him? Or is Brexit more important than gender criticism?

No, I would not vote for Nigel Farage even if he became a remainer and declared himself a radical feminist.
I'm not asking for much. Any progressive party that takes a stand against biology deniers, and recognises the need to uphold women's rights and protect children and young people from harmful gender ideology will get my vote.

Apocalyptichorsewoman · 08/09/2019 12:31

Voted!

Redshoeblueshoe · 08/09/2019 12:02

I've just made it 8 Smile

FlyingOink · 08/09/2019 11:58

Seven votes so far

Just had a call from the Lib dems
Original poster
Patnotpending · 08/09/2019 11:30

Nothing would make me vote for a far-right party and increasingly I find myself feeling the same way about the far-left.

I have no idea how far-left Labour would turn out to be in reality. My current MP (Labour) isn't Momentum and isn't a fan of Corbyn and his ideology and so I'll probably end up voting for her. But if there was a more centrist party with a firmer GC line they would have my vote. Really annoyed at the Lib Dems because were it not for the fanatical pro trans stuff I could vote for them with a clean conscience.

Thanks to Birdsfoot upthread. I've put it on a sticky on my laptop so if they call me at home I can refer to it.

OP posts:
FlyingOink · 08/09/2019 11:17

strawpoll.com/5ph17kg4
I've just set this up (link only). It allows for comments and multiple choices but only one vote per IP.
It would be interesting to see how important this is to the FWR crowd. For example, if you were a remainer, but Nigel Farage was asked his view on TWAW, and stated that humans can't change sex and the Karen White scandal was a terrible indictment of policymaking to please activists without consideration of the consequences - for example - would you vote for him? Or is Brexit more important than gender criticism?
Obviously the poll is anonymous.

Birdsfoottrefoil · 08/09/2019 10:45

Maybe “what word do you use to describe the group of people who are discriminated against due to their potential ability to get pregnant? Who are paid less as a group due to this? Who may get cervical cancer, endometrial cancer, ovarian cancer, vulval cancer?”

exexpat · 08/09/2019 10:42

Just saw this from the Young Liberals on Twitter: twitter.com/YoungLiberalsUK/status/1170417558509563904?s=20

Of their hundred policies, 'fighting for trans rights' comes in at number five, well ahead of anything to do with climate change or women's rights (no actual mention of women anywhere, naturally). I am pretty sure #62 'end the spousal veto' is also a trans rights one (how dare anyone object if the person they married says they want to stay married despite changing gender) though it won't mean a thing to most people reading that list.

TeenPlusTwenties · 08/09/2019 10:15

Placemarking. I am likely to have the same dilemma, My MP is one of the 21 ousted recently, and before them we had a Lib Dem.

Original poster
Patnotpending · 08/09/2019 10:11

Thanks, donquixote, for pointing out that 'they' may just be bad wording.

I may well be phoned by one or two other Lib Dems (there is an election for a new candidate) and I was wondering whether anyone could suggest a few killer questions to put to any of those who say they support TWAW.

So far I've got 'Would you be happy to have a committed sexual relationship with a transwoman/man?', 'I'd like to identify out of earning hundreds of thousands of pounds less over the course of my working life than an equivalent man, could you tell me how to do that please?' and 'I'd like to identify out of having periods and endometriosis. How do I do this?'

They all seem a bit round-and-about. Anything better?

I'm not, by the way, a member of the party. I got into a conversation on the trans issue with a couple of people in my local Lib Dem group and seem to have been added to mailing lists as a potential supporter.

OP posts:
OccasionalKite · 07/09/2019 23:27

Campervan69

My top tip is to have a stack of Fairplay for Women leaflets by the front door ready to hand to canvassers.

Yes, that would be really useful for me, too! To be able to hand a concise leaflet to canvassers. Or to anyone else, really.