Vox article on rise of TERFS!

We will never win this battle - politically and legally - if we sit around waiting for the 'left' to give a damn about women and girls

This. This all day.

Just so you know the conservatives in the US are not neo-nazis. The alt right in the US are the neo-nazis.

I thought Milo Yiannopoulos was the poster child of the alt right - a gay man who primarily dates black men. He is very scathing about feminists so I can see why he wouldn't be popular on here.

Great response.

A response to the article from Wolf

womensliberationfront.org/vox-needs-a-fact-checker/

Just so you know the conservatives in the US are not neo-nazis. The alt right in the US are the neo-nazis.
Odd that they chose a transgender identified male to write about what Feminists and gender critical women think and do. Reminds me of this:
9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say.

People need to stop labelling everything marginally to the right of Pol Pot 'alt-right' it has become a meaningless term. If you label everything you disagree with 'extremist' then when real extremists show up no one will pay you any mind. You will become the boy who cried wolf.*

Yes, it just reinforces the idea that things which fall under certain labels are inarguable by virtue of the fact that somehow they became associated with that faction. Given that trans ideology got as far as it has because many people have made that very assumption, that it must be progressive and good because it is associated with the left, without thinking it through, we should all be suspicious of that thinking.

And really, the idea that conservatives, or the alt-right which people seem to think are the same, are all just hoping to enforce gender stereotypes and control women's bodies just for the sake of it, is so reductive. It shows the problem with this approach it prevents real engagement and understanding of why people take particular viewpoints.

What a load of bunkum. A very vociferous minority of TW are the white supremacists and sucking a lot of people in.

A natal woman should be "allowed" to look as unfeminine as she damn well pleases so why should only certain people be required to look gender-conforming?

I agree. Women can have look however they want. Men shouldn't be surprised when we think they look manly though.

ReanimatedSGB thank you for posting the link to that paper which I have now read. It is light on evidence and heavy on rhetoric and ideology. Using data from the UK for instance as proof of the harms of the Nordic model is beyond ludicrous, it is dishonest as the UK does not follow the Nordic model. Anywhere.

ReanimatedSGB

I am pro censorship in that I think media showing actual abuse of women and children should be illegal, and that media depicting women (supposedly) pretending to be abused is highly problematic, and should be regulated, in terms of its accessibility to minors etc. Some men seem to think if they have an orgasm to some piece of media that makes said media important freezepeach. Meanwhile women are banned from the public sphere for saying “men are not women”.

I am not anti sex. I am anti men using women’s bodies sexually under duress or coercion, which in my view is rape, not sex.

Only male people benefit from a view of “sex” that includes coercive rape as a viable path for men’s sexual pleasure.

As far as I know, places which have moved towards complete decrim of sex work (meaning Johns can’t be prosecuted) have seen skyrocketing rates of actual human trafficking of women and children.

The only people who oppose the Nordic Model are those with a vested interest (ie they make money out of women's subjugation) or those who's "sex work" is hands off and therefore not dangerous because they don't come into contact with men.

I haven't read enough about it but I certainly wouldn't conflate Nordic Model with right wing anti abortion man haters.

Take a look at the Nordic Model now website , you may find useful information there.

nordicmodelnow.org/

Also they are doing sterling work opposing the Law Commission's planned changes to surrogacy law. Please use their ten minute download to respond.

nordicmodelnow.org/2019/08/30/how-to-respond-to-the-uk-surrogacy-consultation-in-10-easy-minutes/

TinselAngel OMG that article is indeed a classic - a classic example of autogynophilia, where being a women is all about the clothes, the makeup, the appearence, the validation, the passing. When a bank customer Burns talking to demands to speak to a man about a financial matter, Burns doesn't do what any woman would do and inform him that Burns is perfectly qualified to answer his questions. Nope, Burns doesn't feel in the least bit insulted or belittled, just elated that Burns has passed!

At present vast swathes of the public have no idea what is going on but they will find out eventually and when they do there had better be a moderate body politic for them to turn to because if the far right are the only group who will protect children the far right will get the votes. People have a limit beyond which they won't be pushed.

This. This all day.

I have already had to write off voting for some UK political parties because of this. It troubles me.

Fragglin

Transwashing history. So mainstream within the movement that most believe it to be true.

"It's written by Katelyn Burns. 'nuff said."

Ugh.

Harms of the Nordic model here

Right wing or religious, that should say.

There’s nothing actually wrong with being right wing of religious. Huge numbers of people are. It’s a totally normal part of society.

Nordic model has not "been shown time and time again to harm women". Youre thinking of legalisation

Can we leave off the "anti-sex" shite in opposition to the Nordic model.

Those of us who are not rah, pompoms over prostitution are not anti-sex. We are anti-coerced-sex (where we include in coercion unwanted sex forced on people in virtue of their economic circumstances).

Anyway, sorry to derail!

I don't think anyone should have to pretend anyone looks like anything. I just don't see why looks are getting dragged into this thread or other threads that aren't about appearances. I don't tend to read TRA's Twitter threads for that reason!

What you look like has no bearing on "how much of a woman" you are as we know.

Reanimated

I've been invited to a talk and would be interested in reading more about the Nordic Model beforehand. Things I've found have promoted the positives of the model. Can you direct me to any of the studies that show how the model puts women at risk?

Not trying to get you to do my work for me, but all I can find written against the model are opinion pieces with no evidence of studies to back them up, and you say there's lots of evidence.

I'm gender critical but wouldn't want to accidentally ally myself to men-hating, anti-abortion fascists!