Should I raise this with School?

ShesDressedInBlackAgain

I'm not saying you can't have it both ways. I'm just saying that if girls want privacy when changing for PE then it's reasonable to assume that they also won't want to expose their underwear to classmates in this scenario either. So why wouldn't the op want to follow reasonable advice from the school to make sure that her dd won't be embarrassed when participating?

I guess if her dd won't care when her skirt ends up around her waist then it's up to her dd. I just can't really see this being the case though.

And I think your point about autonomy is an excellent one

Yes I see that longest

But some people are saying 'Well you can't have it both ways - YOU said you wanted privacy for girls and now you are saying it's ok for them to "flash" their pants'. Which is really not on at all IMO.

I agree she dressed. I think here though the trouble is that someone will be manhandling the girls into a recovery position. They may not have autonomy so it's not quite the same as choosing to do a cartwheel.

From Firstaidforlife.com

What do I need to wear for the first aid courses?
We recommend you wear comfortable clothing (not skirts or dresses) to participate in the essential practical elements of our training. You will also be asked to remove your shoes, so you might want to wear your best socks!

That is a good response.

I think it is odd that people don't understand that girls can simultaneously have the right to privacy while getting changed and the right to do a cartwheel while wearing their school uniform. Possibly different girls, possibly even the same girl at different times. That really doesn't feel controversial to me?

I agree with you OP but I understand the reasons.
I’d write

‘Dear school, as DD is attending an active session when she does first aid I thinks it’s best that she wear her PE kit as it’s the most suitable for activity. I assume this is satisfactory for her and any other child?’

Off topic but TIL that nurses in the UK wear dresses as uniform? I don’t think I’ve seen a skirt in a medical setting in my life.

Yes, some nurses do wear dresses. Just because you’ve never seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

As an A&E sister for years I performed CPR on many, many occasions and as far as I’m aware, managed to do it without ever flashing my knickers. 🙄

And it is direct discrimination. Saying 'own clothes and everyone must wear trousers' wouldn't be, but saying 'boys can wear what they wear to school but girls can't' is a really clear example.

But it doesn't discriminate against girls who wear trousers to school, even if only occasionally. The only girls really affected are those who never wear trousers to school and that's why I suggested OP speak to school to find out what alternative is acceptable. It would be a rare school who insisted that only uniform trousers would be acceptable, even if that required them to be purchased specifically for this. I'm quite sure PE joggers would be acceptable in this instance.

But that's exactly why I think it's different from modesty shorts. It's about privacy and protecting kids from being uncomfortable, not about imposing adult concepts of modesty on children who have no such concept.

It's about consent isn't it? And about different people being different and being comfortable with different things.

In what way is about consent?

And different people comfortable with different things?

That makes no sense. Honestly I am on your side but this is not direct discrimination. Everyone has been advised to wear trousers. At best it's indirect because boys are less likely to be inconvenienced by this request but there's no suggestion of punishment for failing to comply with the request - which has only arisen because girls normally have a choice of acceptable clothing for school.

And it is direct discrimination. Saying 'own clothes and everyone must wear trousers' wouldn't be, but saying 'boys can wear what they wear to school but girls can't' is a really clear example.

Stripping down to underwear in order to change for pe isn't ok but showing the same underwear whilst demonstrating the recovery position is ok? Maybe you can explain what the difference is?

It's about consent isn't it? And about different people being different and being comfortable with different things.

Fairly sure the next parent would complain if the advice wasn't given

There would definitely be a complaint.

Perhaps they are asking people to do this to save the girls themselves any embarrassment when getting into positions during the activity. At 11 years old I would have been Mortified if I had to take part in an activity that was very likely going to mean a group of people would see my knickers, especially my classmates.

Also haven't seen a urse wear a dress or skirt at work in a long time.

I am a Year 6 teacher and we go take our children on a similar course. In the blurb we get from the hospital, it states that girls are required to wear trousers. We just then relay the same message in the letter we send to parents. If you do raise the issue, you may need to be sure where the advice came from.

However, would you want your daughter to be embarrassed at the likelihood of flashing her knickers? Honestly, no wonder hordes of teachers are leaving the profession...can't seem to get anything right. Fairly sure the next parent would complain if the advice wasn't given

It is paradoxical though. I hate modesty shorts' for eg cartwheels because young girls should be free not to worry about flashing their knickers if they themselves have no inhibitions. But this is different - being put in the recovery position and being asked to maintain that pose may mean they are showing their knickers to all their classmates whether or not they feel uncomfortable about it. It's fair warning that they might be better advised to wear trousers in case they do end up in that position where they feel uncomfortable. Perhaps they could have spelt it out clearly and left the girls to decide for themselves but that is making a bit of a meal of things imo. I do agree that they shouldn't be specifying anyone has to buy particular uniform trousers though if skirts are acceptable the rest of the time.

Is it possible that you don't understand what privacy means? Because that really isn't at all paradoxical.

In this instance, no I don't understand. Stripping down to underwear in order to change for pe isn't ok but showing the same underwear whilst demonstrating the recovery position is ok? Maybe you can explain what the difference is?

As for boys can attend in their uniform but the girls can't surely that's only correct if schools are only allowed to wear skirts or dresses for school. Every school that I know of the girls have a choice and can wear both skirts and trousers so trousers are part of the girls school uniform. It's only an issue if parents choose for their daughters to not wear trousers to school isn't it?

So many times on this board I see posters stating that young girls approaching puberty need privacy from male classmates when changing for PE etc yet now all of a sudden there's no.problem with the girls showing their underwear?

Is it possible that you don't understand what privacy means? Because that really isn't at all paradoxical.

OP it is direct discrimination - unless the uniform isn't sex specific (and it's still indirect if it isn't imo). Can boys attend in their school uniform? Yes. Can girls? No.

Much better that the school understand that to prevent them making this mistake again. They can require own clothes and specify trousers to their hearts' content.

Have you ever been put in the recovery position in a skirt in-front of 30 peers?! It's absolutely fine in a genuine emergency, but why would you want to put your daughter in a position where she'll be uncomfortable when it can be EASILY avoided.
Had they not recommended it, I bet people would kick off/ cite sexism that girls were put in an embarrassing position.
I'm late 20s and did a first aid course and I got the same recommendation via email (as did my male colleague).

i think skirts arent suitable for this as bare legs, or in tights, would not be comfy on floor. and teachers probably trying to limit excuses for not getting on the floor. When Ive done suchba course Ive just worn trousers as most practical.
I think schools have enough issues to deal with without issues like this being raised.