Athletics: China field a women’s relay team featuring two men

Awful though it is, bring it on. This will peaktrans the world.

And who can blame China? They want to win and someone set utterly stupid rules. All they are doing is (almost*) everything they can within those rules to win.

*They could have used four men, and will do eventually, if they can.

No, she absolutely is intelligent, but she’s been Stonewalled, sadly. She thinks trans people have struggled so much that it’s only fair to accommodate them. I find it boggling that she so readily extends the understanding to males, but not to the women they displace, who don’t necessarily boo-hoo about how difficult their sporting journeys may be. And she can’t explain why sad males with difficult lives justify the Selina Soules of this world missing out, and why that is a suitable recompense. Sigh.

China has confirmed female but as long as the testosterone is under they are technically female under current regulations. The disclosure of trans would be against their human rights if they wish for it to be remained confidential.

I don’t care about sport. In fact, I actively dislike most sport.

I am still aware enough to realize that women succeeding at sport helps every woman. Sport gives women a venue to fight for equal rights and equal pay that is very visible. Every female athlete who dazzles the crowds with her strength and dedication, means men who will take all of us more seriously.

These men aren’t just taking away women’s sport. They are taking away everything that women’s sport can do for society.

And yes, I agree with those that say this is the predictable and natural consequence of allowing men into women's sports. Once countries realise their women cannot win against these men, they have only two choices

• take a principled moral stance insisting on fairness and the rights of women and accept that they will lose or
• embrace the rule change to improve their chances of victory and if they're faster than others in doing so, maybe even secure a good few victories over erstwhile rivals (who may have chosen option 1) that they can celebrate as their nation's superiority over its competition

Over time I expect more and more countries to fall into the second camp. History abounds with stories of people acquiescing to unfair systems and doing whatever they can to thrive within a system they are powerless to change. There will be equivocation and appeasement and excuses that by having a man they'll raise their chances to win and get funding for the rest of the team/sport which they will claim benefits female sports. I can fully envision a scenario where this will be seen as the only way for female sports to survive. Or at least some of it.

I think Fu is the only woman there, her 'shorts' are different to the others, plain red where the others seem to have something navy under the red to hold their bits in but perhaps my eyes are deceiving me.

A woman you previously thought to be highly intelligent.

I am completely with Magdalen Berns' approach now "no mate, you're still a bloke" etcetc

It’s so blatant.

This is now exactly where feminists said it would be. Males in women’s sport and everyone on the back foot trying to hand wave it away or pretend we can’t trust what out eyes tell us.

I’ve had someone tell me that including male bodies in women’s sports is because it’s fair. When I asked if it was fair to the women who don’t get a place because there’s a man in it....tumbleweed. From a highly intelligent woman with two sporty daughters.

Which is why the rules (a testosterone level of 6 or under IIRC) are bullshit

Yes!

Apparently China has denied that these athletes are intersex. See the link I posted above, I think it was mentioned there.

This does not just happen in China. They previously hired all the East German coaches en masse, then when that was stopped, we had Ma's Army, the unknown female distance runners who were trained in secret, went to one major world chamionship, won gold and broke records, then disappeared off the face of the earth.

The Chinese are keen to make a mark at the Tokyo games. It's in their time zone and they are none too fond of the Japanese.

China has confirmed these athletes are female. Is there any claim to/possible investigation of them having DSDs to explain their male-bodied appearance?

(Please note I am not taking China's word for it. However this seems too overtly brazen even considering what else the Chinese have done in pursuit of sports victories.)

I fully expect that the next Olympics will feature a number of males competing in women's sports who failed (or would have failed) the qualifications in their own sex. This has, after all, been an option since the 2015 rule change did away with the requirement to medically transition.

Sports success is a path out of poverty for many across the world. If you've ever lived in abject poverty, there are far worse things an individual can do to than self-identify as a woman when doing so requires no medical interventions beyond suppressing testosterone (the effects of which actually are fully reversible).

Yip, they’re men! Not good!

Interviews here www.koreaboo.com/news/chinese-female-athletes-go-viral-accused-looking-like-men/

Sports is starting to look pretty doomed. The arms race is well under way in various countries.

I wonder how this will play out given that the IAAF said recently, in relation to Caster Semenya, that "biology trumps gender identity". As for women saying that it is more important that males feel validated...have we gone back to the 1950s?!

It's all about validation. Which is the only thing it has every been about.

Correct.

Anyone who thinks more men in public life adds to diversity just because the men are dressed as women can fuck right off. It's always women being shoved out of the way.

I've had women say to me on Facebook "I don't care about sport and anyway, I'd rather transwomen felt validated".

This is going to be the most common argument to have men in women's sport.

They can't argue that it would never happen and they can't argue that the men have an advantage, so it will just be about validation.

It is the same for the removal of women only spaces. They can't say it will never happen and males won't attack women. It's all about validation. Which is the only thing it has every been about.

Maybe when these new women hit the olympics and the mainstream the general public will realise how absurd the whole thing is and it will become a bigger issue.

I've seen TRAs post about how we should be celebrating the diversity of women's bodies and applauding the strength and prowess of these athletes.

Quite quickly the men pretend to be women will be pissed off that all the women's spaces have been taken. Those third-rate men will be dangerously angry.

So we’ll have: men and women men-with-slightly-lower-testosterone?

So we’ll have: men and women men-with-slightly-lower-testosterone?

Are they tucking? Underwhelming prowess in the dangly department if not, but I agree that the close-fitting nature of women’s sportswear may prove to be useful in future in sorting the make up of teams.