I made a gross and vile comment, please can someone explain why I was gross and vile?

I think girls and young women wearing short skirts is neither new nor something to worry about.

My mum wore skirts so short that she had to have matching knickers, in the 1960s.

i agree with you OP. I worry a bit about the girls following the hyper sexualised objectified fashion. I think its really damaging even if it is their choice.
I wouldnt treat them with disrespect or think it makes them a lesser person or anything, but its clearly preferable for obvious reasons for somebody to put their focus outwards, rather than focussing so heavily on appearances and image

Men get hard ons from looking at females in school uniform.
I might get sexual thoughts from looking at young, toned, well groomed men wearing tight shorts and slim fit tshirts. If I attacked one of those young men would it be their fault?
It's hard when you have big boobs and an hour glass figure, it really is.
I was cat called as a child by sick men.
I was also stopped in the street at 50 by some delusional saddo, telling me I was gorgeous after he had wolf whistled me.
I was wearing work clothing!
Stop blaming females.
They can wear what the fuck they want.
There's also a thread on aibu about a woman being criticised for wearing a smart dress, cardigan and flat shoes to work.
Unbelievable.
It's a trend it will pass.
One day teenagers will ditch the scary eyebrows.

Babdoc yes, I think it’s wrong to characterise it as a free choice. The point is that this type of clothing is depicted as being attractive to men and girls are basically told that unless they conform to the ideal, they are not attractive to men. It’s pretty hard to withstand that sort of peer pressure and most people tend to follow the crowd rather than be individual.

At the same time, it’s also unrealistic to pretend that people don’t react certain ways to certain clothing. We know they do and we know what judgements are made about it. As feminists, we also know what fuels and supports the patriarchy. Therefore, it grates a little when people say that sex-work, page 3, extremely provocative clothing, choosing to be a ‘traditional wife’ etc are all feminist choices and should be celebrated. All of those things feed into patriarchy and female oppression and are ultimately harmful. It’s not the responsibility or fault of individual women and we should avoid individual blame. But it sure as hell isn’t feminist and it’s legitimate to point out that a woman’s ‘choice’ to be a glamour model for example is not helpful to the liberation of women as a whole.

As them girls are entitled to look however they want, you are entitled to your opinion however offensive. Yes, it was mildly scathing, but also true. Personally I think the world and all this PC madness is batshit gone even madder. Half of the posters who are calling you all sorts are probably putting up a front they probably call everyone cunts in real life.

I think what you might have been getting at is that the 'sex doll' look arises from pandering to the male gaze

I also understand where your coming from.
And to be honest I don't think the young girls that do the crappy makeup will give a shit.
I really hate the caterpillar eyebrows .
What the hell is that about.

bab

Yet seemingly it's ok to send them in to school in what is one of the top google porb searches?
Made to wear that from 4 sometimes even 3 onwards yet then are somehow letting the side down when they wear tight clothing outside if school?

Yeah its men that need sorting out. Not the girls.

PPs seem to be assuming that girls who wear the slut/trash bag style have made a free choice to wear it, and the choice should be respected.
But choices are not made in a vacuum!
My loathing of that style is predicated on the fact that it is conforming to the patriarchy. It is buying into the male fantasy of a sex doll, and reinforcing that vile anti feminist presentation of women as a societal norm.
My distaste towards girls who do that is strongly linked to my perception of them as class traitors.
And I suspect OP maybe feels the same.

ArnoldWhatshisknickers I've been trying to explain this to my kids but they don't get it. I wasn't a rebel but I liked doing my own thing and rejected all the girly stuff that made all the other girls look the same, but my kids are horrified at the mere suggestion of doing something that makes them stand out from the crowd. And it's a big crowd - their school has 1500+ kids in it. Which makes all the identikit presentation so much more obvious.

Yeah I'm not going to live my life worrying about what will five men hard ons. Which for some men would not be tight clothes and make up anyway.

It's not my responsibility to control them. Thanks.

The problem is though, that young girls in full makeup and tight clothing gives men a hard on. It doesn't matter if you're going out intending to give men a hard on or not but surely any person with an ounce of common sense would not encourage that sort of attention unless you want it
Fucks sake. It's down to the fucking men to control themselves not women and girls to hide in veils and sack.cloths.

Men cant help it?

Getting a stiffy over children is paedo behaviour regardless of whT they wear.

Did that women in a coma who was raoed by the nurse and made pregnant give a man a hard on by being all still and easy pickings? Perhaps she should have been.less comary?

Fucks sake

You called young girls "sex dolls"
For real?

YANBU for not liking the overmade up look but girls who do like it shouldn't be put off. They aren't thick or trashy or anything like that. Everyone can look how they like without other people making assumptions about them.

What's "vile" and "gross" is the sexualization of young girls and women.

As you've realised by now, Mammatino, there was a better way to express yourself, but you're not a terrible person for not choosing your words more carefully in a throwaway comment on an internet forum.

And I share your preference for a less sexualised look for early and mid teen girls, I'm actually delighted to see that there is still (or once again) such a thing as tribes based on a variety of trends.

For years now, coinciding with the Justin Bieber haircut for boys, the teen girls in my kids' high school have looked like Stepford children. Perfectly groomed, all with long straight hair, sophisticated make-up, often too adult clothing and with little apparent individuality in their appearance.

VSCO girls seem like a nice change from that. Even if it is just another trend.

As I'm old and had no clue what VSCO meant, kept thinking voluntary service overseas then wondering what the C was, I went a read the AIBU thread.

There was one comment there about teen trends, how they've been around for a long time, how in the past we had mods and rockers, goths and punks, and I just realised what I find troubling about teen trends in the internet age.

It isn't what the look of the moment is, it's that there seems to be only the look. The look doesn't seem to be attached to something. The older trends the poster listed weren't just looks, they were genres of music. Genres that many of us enjoyed without getting into the look particularly.

I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make here, it just feels like the internet and constant photographing of ourselves has shifted something, that image has become not just important, which it always was, but inescapable, all encompassing.

Good plan to post on Feminist Chat OP!

So far I see, ooh.... two board regulars replying!

Of course everyone should be able to dress how they like but sadly society judges people.

We all choose what we wear. We have a huge range of choice. So, yes, people will form opinions about you as a result of those choices, because they are aware that this is something you have chosen yourself. And I don’t think that’s unreasonable; you’re not forming an opinion of me based on something over which I have no control (eg my height, or the colour of my skin), but based on the way I have decided to present myself. I can honestly say that I put little thought into today’s ensemble and pulled a dress off the washing line. But - ultimately - I still bought it and decided to wear it. If I stop to think about it, you’d probably think “middle class Mummy” if you saw me, which is pretty accurate....and in turn, probably influenced why I bought it in the first place. You get the drift....

Now - take the short skirt example. In no way is any woman wearing one less deserving of courtesy/legal protections etc etc than anyone else. And she absolutely has the right to go about her business without fear of assault. But, as an adult, if you choose clothing that reveals a larger proportion of your legs than is the norm, presumably you are aware that others will notice this and assume that you are drawing attention to your legs/will notice your legs/may think you shouldn’t be showing so much of your legs. If you’re an adult, that’s your informed choice to make and up to others what they privately think of it.

Where it’s difficult is with children. They see celebrities wearing skimpy clothing and imitate that....but often without fully understanding the implications of it. A grown up woman wants to wear a short skirt and a boob tube? Presumably she’s aware that she will attract male attention and all power to her elbow if that’s her choice. But kids don’t always fully understand and, as a pp says, this can unfortunately put them at risk or lead them to give an impression of themselves that they in no way intended to give.

“it was such a lazy comment and has shown me up to be a nasty judgy bitch. Sorry again for any offence.”
No. It’s shown you to be someone who hasn’t in the past thought very much about the language you use. Stop worrying about it- just read over your posts before you press send.

I saw your comment on the other thread. I was taken aback by it. Because we were talking about children. I was a teenage girl who enjoyed wearing full make up and tight clothes. I enjoyed expressing myself this way. I did not do it to become sexually active or to please men. I actually chose to have sex with my first boyfriend at age 18.

If an individual wants to look a certain way then that's up to them. We should not shame them because we feel that it's wrong by our standards. My asian friend used to change her clothes when she got to town and apply make up before shopping in town. She had to get changed back into her Asian clothing and wipe off her make up before returning home. She said that if anyone from her community saw her bare arms and legs with make up, that they would label her a slut. I felt sorry for her repression and was thankful I wasn't judged in the same way. Which is another reason why your comment didn't lie well with me.

I actually dont think its helpful to label people. Its only acceptable If people label themselves, however people do not ask for judgements. However its a good sign that you have recognised the impact of your poor comments. Life is a journey of learning.

Probably the term ‘trash bag’. I mean this is just a stab in the dark here.... So many more tactful ways you could make that point.

At the same time I think there are too many people who think that feminism equals a woman’s right to do what the fuck she likes without criticism, which is why we have prostitution, stripping, plastic surgery etc defended as ‘feminism’. Feminism sooooo isn’t that. Although maybe liberal feminism is.

I think the language used was unfortunate. I also think you were talking about children not adult women and that parents have a responsibility to guide them through their teenage years such that dressing how they like isn’t without limits until they reach the age of majority.

Little girls of thirteen wearing overtly sexualised clothing places them at risk. That’s not their fault. It’s not right but sadly, it’s true. I dislike little girls looking like they are touting for business. I understand they might want to explore their sexuality but time enough for that when they’re older and a bit more able to deal with inappropriate behaviour from others.

Describing someone as an aspiring trash bag is pretty vile in my book....