I made a gross and vile comment, please can someone explain why I was gross and vile?

Yes I agree men must be in control, but there is an element of hypocrisy in women who choose to dress like that but assert it’s nothing to do with advertising themselves as a sexual object.

There’s a reason we have the expression ‘If it looks like a duck and swims like like a duck then it probably is a duck’.

On FB recently I saw a picture of a girl a friend had been tagged with, who looked like one of those human Barbie types. A few people had commented ‘Gorgeous’ but I was honestly repulsed. Take a look at Emmanuel Béart in Manon des Sources, and then after she’d had her lips done and see which you prefer. The natural beauty of many women in the world is astounding; I’ve never noticed in a positive way any woman who’s messed about with herself and more often than not, I’ve felt an inward sense of horror at their look.

Another topical thread - I recoiled reading in ‘This Is Going To Hurt’ the story about the girl who cut off one of her own labia to look more like the girls do in porn videos. Then there was a note to say a little while later a girl had superglued her vagina together ‘because her BF asked her to’. FFS while it’s true to say that men need to be in control, we need to protect vulnerable women like those from themselves, by eschewing any look that is, or comes close to, an over sexualised one.

Fully expect to be annihilated now.

But I also dont think

Sorry

To be fair I dont know much about all these different types of feminism. Hell I never even considered myself a feminist. I guess I woke up one day just feeling to old for this shit and over the last yr or 2 it's been a case of slowly realising that most the threads I read are on this board without even realising and discovering alot of it is what ive always thought anyway.

All these different waves however, I cant say I know much.

All I can say is thinking back over the years of how things were when I was a kid and what I see now, well I can honestly say I feel there has been a massive dumbing down of society.

It's no wonder after years at school where everything is dictated to down to socks and hair bands, that by the time they leave the kids have no sodding idea how to think for themselves or question what they see.

We cant spend years forcing kids to be sheep then act surprised when unthinking sheep they become.

I guess I also cant blame groups of people who try and almost make it appear that being sheep was somehow a choice they made in order to regain some control and appearance of thinking for themselves.

But I also just think that because the beginnings of this formation of mindless drone society is sold in m&s that it's ok.

Why are you not addressing this on the actual thread to which you refer, OP? Why are you dragging further drama over here to FWR?

It's an unacceptable comment because you are calling young girls trashbags and sex dolls, not because you criticised a fashion trend.

They may be aping a style you dislike (I hate that look myself) but your language was objectifying and rude. They aren't trash, they aren't fuck-puppets for men. They are young girls and young women and referring to them is such a dismissive and reductive way is the antithesis of feminism.

NB - as an aside, I loved the VSCO thread, it was hilarious. Still can't work out how the drag queen getting whacked in the knackers fits with scrunchies and messy buns.

It’s more about the harm that is done to women as a whole by an overtly sexualised image being promoted as the ideal

Yes, absolutely. It's not about short skirts, low cut tops or whatever. It's about young women feeling they have to look/dress/makeup in a certain way to be accepted.

The saddest thing is that a lot of this compliance will be coming from female "friends".

But OP - referring to teenagers as trash bags and whatever is just not on.

I agree with you and really don't like the current look some teenagers are adopting. I would have worded it very differently though! Calling them trashy and sex dolls made me cringe.

As the bewildered auntie of two 'sex doll' inspired neices I agree with you. My beloved neices certainly are not sex dolls and I'll punch anyone who says they are.

But because of current fashion, they closely resemble them. And it isn't empowering, in my view it's ghastly. They choose their own clothes etc so it's none of my beeswax but it makes me feel privately very sad.

While I also don't like the look you're talking about, you don't need to use the language you did to discuss it.

As feminists, we can analyse things without attacking other women personally.

Sarah I agree that there is no point blaming individuals for following a trend. But I do partly blame the adult libfem women who tell these young girls that every choice they make is ‘feminism’ and that all of this will empower them. It won’t, as we are seeing. Women aren’t becoming more empowered in reality. This survey shows that 18-24 year olds are less likely to think that sex is something that both partners enjoy than pensioners:

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/dating/men-want-sex-more-than-women-study-sexist-a9075751.html%3Famp

The idea that these girls are viewed as sex dolls is problematic but true. Calling someone a sex doll is objectifying them, removing their agencies. But explaining the comparison in my opinion is OK. Instead of "you are a sex doll trash bag" I would have said - "when you altered your face so extremely with make up and fillers and filters, you no longer look like a real, human woman. You look like a sex doll, a perfect, passive, submissive robot. You may not be like this in real life, but the reality is that more people see you on line these days than in real life. This image of young women is fuelling the dehumanising of women. If we are subhuman it is easier for them to rape us, beat us, remove our rights".

Or what Pota2 said.

I hate the 'pornifed' look that a lot of teenage girls seem to go for. I don't judge them for it, I don't think it implies their sexual availability at all, it's just a look, but i think it's sad that they go for a look that is so far removed from their own individual, natural beauty. I mean crazily high heels, tight clothes, heavy make up, false lashes and nails and hair extensions, it must be uncomfortable and time consuming, while their male counterparts are slouching around in comfortable, weather appropriate clothing. So I get where you are coming from op.

I agree that society as a whole has a lot to answer for with the messages it sends to girls.

I just hate that they are seen as traitors in some way for doing something whilst we send them off to school quite happily in uniform to be used as buffer zones for boys who cant behave and to sit in the same class as their rapist.

It's too late by the time they leave school and discover love island. ( urgh I never watch that crap)

We have already failed them by then

SarahTancredi it’s not really about risks of sexual assault. The risk of being raped by a stranger is pretty low- much more likely that it’s someone you know and doesn’t matter what you’re wearing. It’s more about the harm that is done to women as a whole by an overtly sexualised image being promoted as the ideal, especially since that also seems to involve making physical alterations to healthy bodies. If that image wasn’t seen as the ideal or as sexually attractive, I doubt many women would make the ‘free choice’ to emulate it.

branleuse and of course it’s not only clothes now. The Love Island image promotes fillers and Botox and plastic surgery. That’s no better than the surgery promoted by TRAs. Girls are told that they will only be attractive if they get a load of shit injected into their lips. Yep, pretty sure it’s okay to call that out as being sick and wrong.

You dont keep kids safe though by dictating what they wear.

Women and children are abused and raped wearing track suits. Wearing pyjamas. Wearing hot pants. Wearing anything and everything.

It's not what you wear. It never was.

What bunslinger??

i think its pretty vile to pretend that its harmless and A-OK for young women to spend hours doing stage makeup, inject their lips with fillers in their teens. The term trashy sex doll isnt nice, but what is going on now isnt short skirts. Its gone way past that. Its porn culture

bunslinger I beg your pardon?

@Mammatino I don't think expressing an opinion should be considered anti-feminist, especially as you did not mention any names. Neither does it rob anyone of the right to dress as they please. The choice is still there. Why can't a more senior woman express a view about young women's appearance? It does concern us as a body of women that young girls and our daughters stay safe.

When I was a teenager, baggy clothes were fashionable. (Actually they are becoming so now- my 14 year old has numerous items of clothing that would have not looked out of place in the early 90s).

I still was catcalled from the age of 12 or 13 wearing a long beige mac and brown clumpy shoes. Because some men are pigs, regardless of what women and girls wear. We should focus on tackling toxic masculinity.

Getting a stiffy over children is paedo behaviour regardless of whT they wear.

No it isn't.

You struggle to understand why calling young girls "trashy sex dolls" is a vile thing to say?