I made a gross and vile comment, please can someone explain why I was gross and vile?

If you had read the thread you would realize OP wasn't looking for absolution but opinions.

You on the other hand stalked OP to come here and throw insults around. Quite clear what is more pathetic.

Jeez, I can't believe you hopped over to the feminism board to get absolution for calling teen girls trash bags. Pathetic, really - own your shit.

Because everything these days is a choice and every choice is good.

Standard pomo playbook. Hence why ssx work is so great, of course the evil trafficking and asx slavery is bad, but as soon as the woman 'freely chooses' to sell herself it is empowering and you are trash for denying her that amazing choice.

is bunslinger going to return to explain what they mean by this comment, in response to another poster:

Getting a stiffy over children is paedo behaviour regardless of whT they wear.

No it isn't.

it's funny how the choicey choicey brand of feminism always seems to benefit men.

OP - don't grovel. Please don't. Your language wasn't the best but anyone with half a brain cell who hasn't swallowed the whole 'a woman's choice is always feminist and great for women' mantra knows what you meant. Kim Kardashian is not a great role model for girls, she just isn't.

And it also ticks me off that the boys in the school are expected to somehow not notice the hyper-sexualisation and connection to porn and somehow, even though they are also kids, it's not supposed to affect them when they see all the young women around them performing that - in fact its somehow their fault if they are

How are you defining "not notice"

It's not happening to see people that's ever been the problem.

It's the sexual comments , asking for blow jobs in class, calling girls slags etc comments about their bodies

High school must be the only place where you can somehow be frigid, a slag, and a.lesbian all at the same time.

If you are saying they cant help but treat girls this way then you are part of the problem

Also as I've previously pointed out, both myself and daughters get far more unwarranted hassle from men when we are dressed down.
Dd1 works part time in a bar. She always dresses casually often in the polo shirt provided. Always in trousers/jeans always flat shoes either vans, converse or Nike. Hair tied back, no make up.
The amount of hassle she has had from men is awful. Many of them old enough to be her father.
Yet when she glams up and wears heels, make up, tight dresses or tops etc she is fine.
I've found this too.
So in reality it's often safer to wear this type of make up and clothing.
Perhaps in reality men keep away, which is a good thing.
Perhaps more women do it knowing it looks more intimidating. Just a thought. See my previous post where my dd2 only gets hassled by sick pervs when she is dressed down. Glammed up to the 9s with her friends in fake tan, heavy make up, short skirts or tight fitting trousers and the pervs keep their dustance, RESULT!

Interesting isn't it.
I have both sons and daughters.
I'm many ways they are similar.
All of they swing between wearing baggy, comfortable , lounging around clothes. For example trainers, converse, vans, joggers, hoodies, no make up, jeans etc. To really making an effort.
When my son (or any fit young man) wears stylish shorts which finish above his knee that's totally fine. When a woman wears clothes which finish above her knees that's often criticised. Likewise a man showing his chest=fine.
A woman showing any part of her chest = wrong.
A man in a close fitting shirt =fine.
A woman in close fitting close=wrong.
I had this conversation with dh about knickers.
I bought some new ones which covered my belly and bum. Comfortable and look better under clothes, in white and nude. He said he thought they were a bit grannyish. I pointed out that he wears plain cotton boxers, which cover his arse and belly and get that is considered fine for a man. Yet why are women expected to wear impractical, uncomfortable underwear.
Why does this disparity exist?
We need to challenge it more.

The wording could have been more carefully considered, but the sentiment I completely agree with.

*They were both scared and humiliated
*
That was exactly his intention when making those remarks.

i save "gross and vile" for actually gross and vile stuff like feces and entrails.
pussyfooting with lengthy paragraphs on not calling the person but the style ugly could easily be understood by the context and tone of the thread.

I follow a couple of young women on instagram and I think they do look a bit trashy. They both have black drawn on eyebrows, lip fillers (which they pout) I don't know why they think it looks attractive but it could be because they follow the Kardashions or some other reality stars. Luckily my daughter is older and only has the drawn on eyebrows and nothing else.

Calling any woman a trash bag is horrendous. You seem to understand your mistake, so move on from it.

My 14 yr old daughter and her friend were crossing the road while wearing their Catholic school uniforms. One man leaned out the window requesting a threesome. He also asked if they would “ take it up the bum”. They were both scared and humiliated.

It is pornofied and it does look like trashy sex dolls.

I wouldn't call teens in school class traitors, many aren't aware enough to be thought of that way. Some don't really even get how sexualised it is, and even if they do many don't see the larger issues.

What makes me angry is that adults who know better tell them all this garbage about expressing themselves and looking however they want, without teaching them about the context of their choices. And it also ticks me off that the boys in the school are expected to somehow not notice the hyper-sexualisation and connection to porn and somehow, even though they are also kids, it's not supposed to affect them when they see all the young women around them performing that - in fact its somehow their fault if they are.

Sounds like you’ve learned a lot op. Well done for being open to changing and taking on board what people are saying. We need more of this in the world.

My daughter is 17 and what would be classed as one of these 'sex dolls' and the saddest part is that she's switched on and has a very feminist outlook - she recently out-argued a guy on Instagram about abortion and bodily autonomy. She showed me her posts - they were pretty much what I would have said.

It breaks my heart to see her walk out of the door with a skirt barely covering her bum and make-up that has taken her over an hour and a half to put on - huge eyelashes, thickly painted on eyebrows, foundation, highlighter, God knows what else. She looks like a completely different girl without it all.

But what do I say to her? I said to her recently 'you know you're beautiful underneath, don't you? You know you don't need all of that?'. And she said 'no, you might believe that but I don't'. How do I tackle that? Society and social media leads these young girls to believe that their faces need to be perfect. Filters on Snapchat give the illusion that their faces are imperfect when seen in a mirror. Porn leads boys to want girls to look firm and toned and fully made-up.

The baggy trend is coming from Billie Eilish, the 17 year old singer - she wears baggy clothes and minimal make-up because she purposely doesn't want to be sexualised, yet as soon as she wears anything slightly revealing (I'm talking showing her midriff) she is targeted by men online.

I'm completely at a loss. Girls are damned if they do and damned if they don't. I grew up feeling fat and frumpy, with my Mum telling me I couldn't wear certain things because I was too big for them, or outright laughing at some of the clothes I chose/hairstyles I tried. It meant that in my teens/20s/30s I dressed like her - and she was already dressing like she was in her 60s. I actively try not to be like her towards my daughter and I think we have a much healthier relationship for it, but reading this thread has made me think I've still been a failure as a mother.

I also remember one vile bloke spitting at me when I was a young woman and threatening to hit me. My crime? Politely declining his advances whilst sat on a park bench in a busy city.
His mate had to pull him away after he raised his fist to hit me.
I was wearing a jumper, baggy jeans, flat shoes and no make up.
I will always remember it.
I hope the fucker suffered a terrible fate.
Anyhow clothing and being attacked by males =unrelated.

I’m reality though my teenage dd gets more hassle from males when she is dressed casually.
She wears joggers, hoodies, no make up, hair not done, glasses on , and trainers for college. She says she is sick and tired of men staring at her. She has had comments when she had been crossing the road going to dance college, followed off the bus etc etc.
It is getting her down,
Now when she goes out with friends to a do and they go to town on hair, make up, high heels, short skirts etc etc nobody hassles them!
Seriously perhaps people feel more intimidated when she is dressed up.
Men should just fuck off and stop intimidating females.

I mean crazily high heels, tight clothes, heavy make up, false lashes and nails and hair extensions, it must be uncomfortable and time consuming, while their male counterparts are slouching around in comfortable, weather appropriate clothing.

They must dress very differently in your area then. I never see girls wearing anything like that. Ripped jeans, baggy sweater and trainers is the norm here. Oddly, pretty much what I was wearing 30 years ago.

My comment was that I thought it was a better trend than the current trend for overblown, over made up, trashy sex dolls that many young girls seem to follow. Was I vile and gross because it sounded like I was attacking a young woman's right to choose?

Your comment was vile and gross. You were attacking young women.

The underlying dynamics of navigating adolescence on the internet remain unexamined

I think it remains unexamined because its impossible for everyone to completely reexamine what we are telling our kids and why. That things we have introduced "for their own good" have become the very reason why they are the way they are

Everything from how behaviour is managed at schools.

To what us supposedly expected in the work place.

To overly academic curriculums with no room.for any kind of questioning or personal development.

For a comment lack of valuing people in all jobs. If you are a cleaner or a shelf stacked or a care worker etc you beneath people. Somehow the fact these people are they reason people in high powered jobs got there is lost.

We.no longer value so much in people. How do you teach girls in particular that they matter when it's their responsibility to keep themselves safe , when their only roll in school is to shut up take the behaviour if the kid next to you dont appear to be too bright so the boys dont think you ate better than them ( in fact the entire exam process has been re designed so that boys can cram a years work into a months revision and do better than girls who studied fir hours over their coursework)

And when these battered bruised submissive girls leave the system they are still under so much disapproval.

So when are we gonna hold men accountable as oppose to policing the women?

There seem to be two separate issues here.

One about men's behaviour and another about peer pressure amongst teenagers to look a certain way and the latter is as true of the vsco look as the heavily made up look.

Men's behaviour doesn't change regardless of what teenage girls do or don't do, do or don't wear. Teenage girls have no power over grown men.

The issue of peer pressure amongst teenage girls, and it seemingly leading to greater conformity, more mental health issues in the age of social media is something else entirely. Previous posters have suggested the vsco look is preferable as it is more natural, does not lead to cosmetic surgery and I agree with that to an extent, but it can still lead to the same pressure to conform, bullying, mental health issues that have occurred with other trends. The underlying dynamics of navigating adolescence on the internet remain unexamined.

Men are always responsible for their own behaviour. Always.

FFS while it’s true to say that men need to be in control, we need to protect vulnerable women like those from themselves, by eschewing any look that is, or comes close to, an over sexualised one

How does one do that. When men fetishise and sexualised everything.

Prison jump suits
School uniform
Nurse and dr uniforms
Secretary style clothing.
And a gazillion more takes on general day to day wear.

There is not one thing that men will not twist and turn into some.porno fantasy.

So when are we gonna hold men accountable as oppose to policing the women?