In support of Amy Dyess

amy dyess is actually unwell, like many of the women in the gender critical movement, as it turns out.

Are we really.

Kinesis?

One of the ex-GC accounts I saw looked like it was the TW who pushed the 'rational trans' a year or so back and was a bit peeved women didn't fall over themselves to allow said TW to dictate what we should think

Kensis or similar name?

Just a note in response to someone up thread saying that maybe the 'ex gc' twitter accounts & blogs were set up by the other side. I've noticed 3 (not including Amy), and they are all accounts that I've followed or read at some point in the couple of yrs I've been interested in this, so those are not TRA sock puppets at least.

I read one blog, and though it's right to dismiss the accusations of brainwashing and being a cult, it's still worth considering the bad experiences described where they are specific & believable.

Maybe thread should go?

Nah, it's a record for those who come across Amy in the future. Even if her behaviour does stems from mental illness, it still impacts others. At some point she'll move on to new targets (unless she has a personality change / therapy / whatever) and it could be useful for them to be able to find a record of what's gone on.

But yes. let's stop now, if she is a narc it's just feeding her / if she's ill it's potentially more damaging than any of us would wish, as DJ Lippy says.

Fair points, DJ, sorry. I'll stop now. Maybe thread should go?

Yes indeed. All quite pitiful.

Yep, I've worked through my incredulous snarky pisstaking and I agree with DJLippy, this isn't going to serve any useful purpose for anyone to continue.

Amy Dyess could be a narc or she could just be mentally unwell and lashing out. I know she has been abusive to many women in this movement. I have witnessed first hand her behaviour - I have been personally hurt by the things she said and done. However, I cant see what good the pile on is doing.

If she is a narc then all this attention is like oxygen. The best way to respond to a narc is to "grey rock" and ignore.

If she is unwell then this won't be helpful. Yes I understand she is behaving like a total dickhead but shouldn't we try to rise above? Whats the Michelle Obama quote? When they go low we go hi. When we call her names we just give credence to her claims she is being abused.

I dont mean to be that feminist who comes along and lectures all the 'nasty women' about their behaviour. If you've ever been on the wrong side of her wrath then I appreciate you might not be feeling all that sympathetic. I'm not tone policing. I just feel incredibly uncomfortable with some of the comments. Like, one mild snide comment is nothing. But when you get 100 such comments then it takes a toll.

If you've never been on the receiving end of a social media pile on you dont appreciate how damaging it can be psychologically. I am genuinely concerned for her mental health and those around her. We were mates once and I still want her to be safe - I want everyone to be safe, even total dicks. What's the Dwokin quote? Feminism is for all women - even the ones you hate who dont talk to you anymore.

Hahaha wtf, why is "batshit" racist? I saw someone on twitter earlier saying that borderline personality disorder was homophobic. Do words even have meanings anymore?

Yes there was the falling out of some women with other women, like WPUK and Posie, or the cyclist woman (who appears to fall out with everyone) - meh, people fall out.

But accusing women of bring part of cults for not delivering on lesbian wives is a new kind of batshit. 'Batshit' is also apparently is now racist.

• it's also, as far as I can see, always a case of falling out with people. As you say there, ByGrabthar, people who are reasoning this out and sticking by their logic don't care about internecine rivalries or bickering.

I care about what I know to be true. C'est tout. I don't need to be pals with people who agree with me, I just need the law and legislation to be on the side of reality.

Who else has there been tobeortobe?

Yes, I certainly got the impression that these people had carefully constructed a narrative of 'converting' from gc to TRA. Bit flimsy and not very convincing.

It's exactly the same tactic that a lot of religious apologetics use RoyalCorgi. If you look you'll find lots and lots of groups trying to push the idea that atheism is a religions, and waving in your face any one they can find who has converted after being an atheist. And, like the the ex GCs, the ex atheists never have any actual science or logic explaining how they became convinced. Its always just "I missed having a community", "not believing made me feel sad", "I always believed really, I was just mad at god" etc. But the thing which religious apologists never seem to understand, which is the same thing TRAs never seem to understand, is that something doesn't become true just because people believe it's true. That's why it's such a waste of time trying to scrape together converts as if they prove anything. It doesn't matter if every atheist in the world becomes religious, and it doesn't matter if every GC person in the world goes full TWAW, all that matter is whether these claims are, and can be demonstrated to be, true. So far none of these claims have met their burden of proof. Whether its gods, souls, reincarnation, witchcraft, gender identity, TWAW, or whatever else, the question of whether they're true isnt answered by counting up all the people who believe vs all the people who don't. It's answered by producing evidence. Not endless sophistry and deflection on Twitter, but actual evidence. So, with respect to Amy, I don't give a shit if she's changed her mind. I don't even care if Julie Bindel, Kathleen Stock, and Jane Claire Jones all change their minds! Until someone can explain to me exactly how TWAW, what gender identity is, and what the word woman means in the context of any of this, I can't believe it. Just like it makes no difference if Richard Dawkins came out tomorrow as a fundamentalist Christian. If he doesn't have any proof to back it up, it means fuck all.

I'm very interested in religious apologetics and I've spent quite a lot of time studying it. I have yet to see a single TRA argument or tactic which didn't almost exactly mirror that framework.

There is no ex-GC. Once you gave seen it you cant unsee.

This.

One of their more obvious tactics is copying us. So if we call them a cult - which we do a lot - they call us a cult. Even though it makes no sense. If a lot of of trans activists de-transition and come out as GC, then they have to have people who are pretending to be former GC people who are now TRAs. It's the usual DARVO tactics taken to an extreme where they are entirely and self-evidently nonsensical.

There is no ex-GC. Once you gave seen it you cant unsee.

And to go on about GC lesbians promising to find you a wife is about as nuts as it gets.

Probably more to be pitied than scorned.

Althiugh I am enjoying the Julie Bindel response.

"I have seen, lately, at least two TRA accounts on Twitter that claim to be 'ex GC'. ... I find it quite fascinating that somebody could go from the easy path of not believing an unbelivable thing, to the much much more difficult project of believing an ubelievable thing and becoming an activist for it."

I think the active word there is "claim".

They claim to be ex-GC. Somehow I doubt it. I've seen plenty of people move from "I'll say TWAW because I want to be nice" to "fuck me I've been excommunicated because I mentioned my miscarriage". I expect the TRAs paying attention noticed it too, so set up some claiming-to-be-ex-GC sockpuppets.

Yes, it's funny that people seem to see it as some kind of club, or religious movement, as if apostasy is a thing.

JFC that article.

The GC movement has seen a few supposedly high profile people ‘quit’ and it’s always when they aren’t getting the attention/adoration/money they feel they should be getting.

Each time they describe GC feminism as a cult.

It’s not enough to say ‘opps I thought the wrong thing for a bit, soz’. They have to pretend it’s a cult they’ve been saved from, to protect their own ego and to get accepted.
TRAs wouldn’t let them into the fold otherwise.

DENOUNCE.

amy dyess is actually unwell, like many of the women in the gender critical movement, as it turns out. i don't know amy dyess at all, but she has been desperate for attention for a while now.

I have seen, lately, at least two TRA accounts on Twitter that claim to be 'ex GC'.

I wonder how that happened? It's easy to not believe in something that has no evidence to confirm it exists. I don't have to extend any effort at all in not believing in the feminine gendered lady soul/identity/essence. It's as effortless as my lack of belief in reincarnation or the existence of ghosts. But to believe in something when there's no evidence, and indeed evidence to the contrary, requires constant effort. You have to work at it. You have to actively resist the pull of sense, reason and logic.

I find it quite fascinating that somebody could go from the easy path of not believing an unbelivable thing, to the much much more difficult project of believing an ubelievable thing and becoming an activist for it.

I think Julie Bindel is handling it brilliantly. Humour and ridicule are very powerful.

I have seen, lately, at least two TRA accounts on Twitter that claim to be 'ex GC'.