Drag practice: more authentic that actually being a woman?

It appears that men invented feminity and women had to adopt it.

Well I never.

I think they get off on it as well

I agree Creepster, true.

Yours is the post of the day Creepster

the newly added 15th rule of misogyny
Men are better at performing femininity than women are because they invented it and it gives them a boner

Especially the last bit.

You do not have to wear pretty dresses/make-up/heels/tights to be 'feminine'. You just have to be female

You seem to be redefining femininity. Many posters on here go to great lengths to explain that they are female but do not "perform femininity" and and are not feminine.

That's a drag queen I can respect.

Doesn't come across the right way. "He's a drag queen I can respect."

Oh come off it - are you seriously saying you've never seen the large amount of posts on here from posters who never wear dresses/ skirts/ make- up/ nail varnish/ tights / heels etc. etc ? It's a badge of honour trotted out on every thread discussing clothes and appearance.

You do not have to wear pretty dresses/make-up/heels/tights to be 'feminine'. You just have to be female.

Ok - a google search to settle it. A google images search of:- Germaine Greer- Feminist Campaigner Laura Bates- Drag Acts.Who are more feminine?

RuPaul nailed it in response to being referred to as a female impersonator: "I do not impersonate females! How many women do you know who wear seven inch heels, four foot wigs, and skin tight dresses?"

That's a drag queen I can respect. He knows that what he's doing is performance and pastiche and doesn't claim to be a woman or even to be impersonating one.

So, authentic now = fantasy I concocted in my head with no connection to material reality whatsoever?

"Even better than the real thing..."

I'll need to listen to it to make a judgement. I'm increasingly annoyed by drag culture. I do find it offensive and also see other sides of it in art/ historical contexts.^^ At the moment it mostly offends me.

I'm well feminine gullible I just subscribed to beauty pie. short term (yeah right)

Bet those dragsters ain't.

Loving the 15th rule creepster

Have just listened to it - not sure whether it was Dorian Lynskey or Adam Mars-Jones, but I don't think he meant that drag is actually more authentically feminine than being female, because he then says that the "drag convention" is that it is, ie drag artists believe themselves to be more authentically feminine. That's my understanding, anyway.

Drag is as offensive as black face.

I actually think it is really offensive! This comes as a surprise to me but those pictures have made me cross. With the balance of power as it is and the number of men on women murders and rapes, it's parodying women quite cruelty.

Well, only if you think being a woman is performing ludicrous stereotypes. There is no way of being a woman. You either are or you aren’t, depending on what your body is. There’s no way that you can become a woman through acting a certain way.

Oh and would love to see how it goes down when I say that I (white) am more authentically black than black people because I make such an effort with my hoop earrings, braided hair and my love of reggae music. I mean I hope I’d get beaten up but who knows in this weird new world.

No issue with men wearing dresses and makeup and heels and stuff. That stuff does not ‘belong’ to women. The problem comes when they say that makes them women.

I heard that! I thought it was Adam Mars Jones but was cooking at the time and not concentrating fully, being authentically feminine and all that. He got very irritated when challenged as well.

Drag is as offensive as black face.

Indeed.

The closest meaning I've been able to distill of the new usage of "authentic" is: "I know it's not true, and you know it's not true, but we like this version better than reality so we'll go with this."

Well, precisely PerkingFaintly, in these degenerate post-modern post-truth times if literal also means figurative, there’s no reason why authentic can’t also mean fake or artificial. No reason at all except that when up is down and out is in I’m feeling very old suddenly.

Oh authentic doesn't mean authentic any more.

I'm not sure what it does mean – I think somewhere close to the opposite.

Eg, in a programme about the Trump election campaign, the woman who ghost-wrote some of his social media described it as a "very authentic" experience.

Huh? That's the epitome of fakery!

I keep coming across it in contexts like that, relating to fooling people and popularism or emotional appeal.

Here’s the thing, most women do not have to wear make up, slinky dresses, heels or nail polish to look like women (feminine) ALL drag artists do and, despite their best efforts, the vast majority of them are still perceivably men. The real test would be how they’d match up in the feminine stakes sans artifice against similarly unprimped women? I’m going to guess they wouldn’t make the lower division playoffs let alone the Champions’ league finals.

Yes, I’ll concede, some will be far more proficient with the contouring and the lipliner and the spray tanning and the accessorizing and the corsetry than me or other mere women but, frankly, so are Kim Kardashian and Kylie Jenner, and like the Karjenners, I’d argue that the image and presentation is pretty much a drag artist’s fucking job isn’t it?

Wow marguarita the disdain for female failing to woman properly just drips from your posts. You should try a little harder to hide it. Or maybe you’re beyond caring how sexist it makes you look.

Do you have to "wear dresses/ skirts/ make- up/ nail varnish/ tights / heels etc. etc ?" to be feminine?

I am feminine without the performance, as are most women.
The performance requirements are the problem.

Ok - a google search to settle it. A google images search of:

• Germaine Greer

• Feminist Campaigner Laura Bates

• Drag Acts.

Who are more feminine?

No, no, jogger - I realised that

It always strikes me how feminine many trans men look - despite wearing men's clothes, cutting their hair short, and obvs wearing no makeup.

If they haven't touched testosterone yet, then most are unmistakably feminine.

Drag is not feminine - it is a parody of femininity.