Thousands of children forced to grow up in shipping containers

For all of you bewailing this situation- where exactly do you expect London councils to find affordable building land to provide the extra hundred thousand homes?
I notice that the virtue signalling George Clark, in his “Council house scandal” programme, intends to build his utopian new council estate in ....(drum roll)... Manchester.
Well that will be a big help then, won’t it.

Blaming doesn’t solve the problem, it just perpetuates it.

But it seems to not be okay to consider the latter as a factor, because its unkind and might hurt people's feelings, and also because other people can't help the situation they're in. Also you'll get called 'vile' for stating facts 🙄

It’s not about not hurting a persons feelings. It’s about not punishing children for their parents ‘mistakes’, and giving them a little security that will give them a chance in life.

I recommend everyone on this thread watches this.

www.channel4.com/programmes/george-clarkes-council-house-scandal/episode-guide/

The thing is pp on this thread are slating women for making poor choices. But the problem effects families that including the father.

They are homeless because the price of private rent is out of reach for many low average earners. whether they are so single parent families or not.

This will be a result of the housing benefits cap brought in by the Tories.
It was obvious to anyone that families on HB who could no longer pay their rent would become homeless and end up having to be housed in emergency accommodation paid for by the same council that was paying their HB -often more expensive for the council than the HB was.
Homelessness has gone up massively thanks to the Tories.

I used to think like some of you. Untill it happened to me, I was married with 2 dc in private rented accommodation when my coke bead ex dh left us, I couldn't afford the £1350 rent. I've been left with massive debt and was forced to move in with my parents who live above the pub they own, they are heavy drinkers and ended up kicking me and my dc out. I've been in temporary accommodation for months, this is never the life I saw myself or my children having nor was it any of my wrong doing. Shit happens and you can't judge these women

Such 'whataboutism' here. It can absolutely be true that people fall on hard times through no fault of their own, life events can pull the rug from under your feet. It can also be true that people have children and effectively force them into an already poverty-stricken situation.

But it seems to not be okay to consider the latter as a factor, because its unkind and might hurt people's feelings, and also because other people can't help the situation they're in. Also you'll get called 'vile' for stating facts 🙄

Couple downstairs from me didn't have a job between them when they had DC1, always complaining about being skint. They're on DC 3 now and still no job. I'll be the bad, judgy one for pointing that out though.

but women choose their family size.

Just women? and it always works out? Blaming women again.

idaho I really hope you're trolling. We also spent a year or so in a B&B because my dad went to prison. Not sure how that was my mum's fault, spose she should have predicted he was a wrong un and not had children with him.

I’ve always liked the following quote:

If you have more than you need, you’re not supposed to build a wall, you’re supposed to extend your dinner table, add some chairs and share what you don’t need.

I’m happy to help and support those who are less fortunate live in London. I’d sincerely hate for London to become a place solely for the elite and all working class removed.

When I was 16, after many years of living with a terribly violent racist father because my mother was told ‘you’ve made your bed now lie in it’ by her mother, she did as posters here would probably want and put up with abuse and suffering because it was her poor choices that led to it.... only that meant her 4 children suffered too.... Never mind we deserved it, poor choices...
So at 16, with not so much as a sleeping bag he kicked me out in a violent rage, I tried my best to keep attending school but didn’t last long. I had to go on benefits even though I found a little job. I got better jobs, working 6 days, met a nice man and got married and had a child. We both never had parental support so for a time did get child tax credit here in the uk, but now fully support ourselves.

I could be cocky and say, since everything is ok for me now, well despite a rough start I made some good choices so others can do the same and should stop expecting handouts. Except.... I know that if one of us died right now, the other would struggle to support themselves and our child. If I die, my DH is autistic and would struggle to cope and look after our autistic child. If my illnesses or mental health deteriorates again, he might be in a similar position. If he died, we would struggle financially. A lot. I’d probably come right eventually, but I might need help along the way.

It’s very easy to say less fortunate people made their choices, when you yourself have plenty of choices and things planned out ok. To not consider for one second the many many life experiences or unexpected things that can affect how someone manages life... including the system we live in that helps the privileged few maintain their power and hold onto their money, well you’d have to be incredibly heartless and incredibly ignorant. Really. And if you’re on FWR and don’t understand how family violence and Male violence affects poverty, you need to do better.

I’m going to continue to add chairs to my table.

Quote bold fail!

oosefoot

I dont know of any women who wake up one day and 'find' themselves in this position. It would be good if we could educate these women to make better choices to choose not to have children at all if it meant being subject to such lives until they are able to provide some sort of security and stability.

Yes, children are a
However anyone who makes sensible choices will be highly unlikely to find themselves facing these conditions.

Spoken from a place of high privilege no doubt.

I do agree that education is an important part of prevention, but it's by no means the only factor and not everybody has access to the same options for choices as others. Circumstances can change without it being your fault.

Given the fact that we live on an island and that property is at a premium, what is the actual solution to this problem?

I'm a feminist and I don't agree with blaming women for male behaviour, but women choose their family size. That's just how the biology works. When people have insecure relationships or have children with unreliable men then inevitably the women will be left with the aftermath. Realistically, how else could that work?

Either way, no child deserves to live in a mouldy, hot, crowded storage container, or any of the other unsuitable options offered up as ‘temporary’ accommodation

How will these children concentrate at school when they’ve been cold all night? Or had no space to play? Or their mother is depressed due to over crowding and worried about money/food/clothes/job etc? When her energy is focused on getting dad to step up and help out?

We just raise another round of under educated children who live the life they’ve known.

There are people on this thread who think it is really quite desirable / luxurious to live in a small metal box with no heating / air con in the uk?

The piece I read said they get incredibly hot in the summer and freezing in the winter.

It's not like they've taken them insulated them etc etc like some kind of flashy docklands development.

To see on feminism chat women saying children should suffer because they have bad mothers, and the men and society have no hand in this, is really very grating.

Some people end up in terrible situations through no fault of their own, other people don’t make good decisions. Either way, no child deserves to live in a mouldy, hot, crowded storage container, or any of the other unsuitable options offered up as ‘temporary’ accommodation.

Fucking hell the replies on here are terrifying. The likes of you will explain away any injustice until it happens to you. I hope your views on life come back and bite you so spectacularly that you eat your words.

Bertie I agree. It was a shame that the article focused on the containers as that allowed people to say ‘but they’re fine’. And ignore the problem of kids in b&bs etc. I do think that having four children when you are in a vulnerable housing position is unwise though.

The woman quoted lived in a hostel with one child - then had another! And now complains about the shipping container.

As said above it is extremely stupid to expect to live in London if you cannot afford to and expect tax payers to subsidise you

www.itv.com/news/2019-08-21/homeless-families-despair-at-temporary-shipping-containers-promoted-as-flats/

Very nice, honestly? I particularly liked the description by one child in another article about water dripping onto him while he sleeps and eating on the floor as there’s just no other room. But his mother made poor choices so what should he expect besides unsuitable, unstable accommodation?

People do literally wake up one day and find themselves in this situation, even married people. One friend was in a cramped but adequete private rental and the upstairs flat flooded into theirs. They didnt have a deposit saved up as they werent expecting to move and they were given emergency housing which was a b and b two long bus rides away. She couldnt get to her job so had to cut her hours to when the buses ran. It took 6 months to sort and easily could have spiralled.

Fermats

Rather than stigmatising a viable housing option we need to regulate it. We have housing regs for pernanent structures we need to push for regulations for modular housing of this nature.

Containers are usually classed as a temporary structure. I not up on latest building regs so if im wrong apologies.

A container is in effect a steel frame construction, how it is joined, clad/ insulated, layed out etc is down to the designer/architect like any other building. We need to ensure goid quality design, which will lead to a long term solution.

The shipping containers are fine. If you saw the early articles you’d have seen the very nice insides. Clearly the response wasn’t what the journos wanted because on the articles I read the interior photos has vanished by the end of the day.

I saw those photos and thought “wish they’d been available when I was starting out”.

I also read the complaints of residents. Apparently there’s little circulation in them (but the relevant residents don’t want to open the door/window at all which would solve the issue like I’m any other house. They get cold in winter (like stone houses and other accommodation). They get hot in summer (again, like other properties). Etc.

Tl/dr: the converted shipping containers are actually perfectly fine and this is a pearl clutching exercise.

To go back in time about 10-15 years and undo all the cuts? :(

No but really - I honestly believe this has been caused by insufficient support/funding in other areas. And will get worse after Brexit. It makes me sad and afraid for the UK. To me it seems as though the massive amount of homeless/insecurely housed people is a symptom of the failures and the government/councils who are responsible for the safety of these people are "treating" the symptom by making more storage rather than by looking into the causes of homelessness and trying to reduce the number of homeless in the first place.

As I said I was under the impression this was a different arrticle which had used different illustrations and some of the office block conversions do look almost like battery cages, they aren't simply office blocks made into flats, but single rooms on corridors similar to a travelodge type hotel. The "container city" in the independent article is not so bad, but the independent isn't a very good source these days IMO.

A flat is nothing like a tiny room on a long corridor with little management. I live in a flat myself and it's one if my favourite places I've ever lived. I wouldn't feel secure or happy in that situation though, especially knowing my neighbours were volatile. I've also worked in a place that did background checks on people and there are knock on effects from having your address be a halfway house, it's really hard to get employment or places in support services because of where you live.

Did you miss this?

Of the 2,420 families known to be living in B&Bs in December 2018, a third had been there for more than six weeks - despite this being unlawful.

Analysis in the report, released on Wednesday, found that in 2017, around two in five children in temporary accommodation had been there for at least six months.

Around one in 20 - an estimated 6,000 children - had been there for at least a year.

Temporary accommodation is sometimes needed but people aren't able to move on - why not?