Thousands of children forced to grow up in shipping containers

It doesn't even have to be a matter of bad things happening by chance.

So-called "bad choices" aren't things that happen in a bubble, and sure, people do make them. They come out of all kinds of situations, people who have mental health issues, people who have problems stemming from childhood, people who have a hard time with impulse control or long term planning, people with addiction problems, people who have a hard time with becoming educated. Yes, good public services can help many of these things but there are always some people who will struggle and our social plans need to account for that.

Totally apart from that however, do we really want to think about having kids in the same way we think about buying a car you can't afford? Having a family? As if it's a consumer choice?

The attitude of 'I'm alright Jack' really upsets me. The lack of empathy from people who are so privileged that they think that everyone has the same choices that they had/have is heartbreaking. Do these people really not understand that they could end up poor and desperate through a life changing event? Also, is it impossible for them to understand that for those who have had violent, abusive childhoods, with poor education and housing, the very notion of 'choice' is not even on the horizon? Should we, as a society, throw away the key for people in desperate straits? Is that who we really are?

It takes 18 years to raise a child. Pretty much nobody can guarantee that they are going to be able to independently support a child without government help over that time period.

Quite separately, there are many, many abusive men. The more we make single motherhood an unaffordable and unacceptable lifestyle, the greater the proportion of children who grow up in households with abusive men. And that has a huge impact on the mental and physical health and social attitudes of the next generation.

Exactly Imnobody4 exactly that.

Oh... And personal accountability and choices can only protect you so much from the stripping and destruction of services and provisions like health care, homing and education.

Anyone can get ill, find the treatments not available due to funding, unable to work and need benefits, they've been cut to the core, so they end up penniless, kids that once were affordable then end up homeless and hungry.

And just in case anyone needs further proof that this deliberate...

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/help-to-buy-affordable-housing-funding-divert-property-market-buyers-sajid-javid-a8233011.html

As far as the 'bad choices drugs alcohol blah blah blah' rhetoric goes, the process that led to me and my children being homeless was this;

1. My boss took my NI payments from my wage but did not pay it, so instead of being on maternity leave I found myself on benefits.
2. My landlord turned violent. He did not want any tenants claiming benefits or having children.
3. My ex turned out to be an abusive autogynephile who stole thousands of pounds from me. So I lost my relationship, my job and my home.
4. I sofa surfed for 9 months with a baby, and was then at the top of the list for a HA house.

No drugs, no alcohol just abusive fuckers taking advantage.

What an indictment of the UK that in 21st century

I'd say it's more a reflection on the conservatives and their supporters.

If anything, the way the decent people.of the UK have pulled together and organised food banks and charities etc etc etc is something that should be celebrated.

The fact that the government has caused their need is what should be fixed...
Ask yourself.. since cons took over, how much has homelessness and child poverty increased and how.much money have certain conservatives and their friends made...

To be clear, these are not exactly shipping containers but pre-fabs constructed out of shipping containers. Properly sited and constructed, they can fetch a tidy sum, but poorly located in direct sunlight with no insulation or A/C, they can be ovens and fridges.

This thread has just destroyed a little bit more of my faith in human decency.

'But the just-world hypothesis shows how such opinions need not be the consequence of a deep character fault on the part of the blamer, or some tiny kernel of evil in their soul. It might simply result from a strong need to feel that the world remains orderly, and that things still make some kind of sense.

Facing the truth – that the world visits violence and poverty and discrimination upon people capriciously, with little regard for what they’ve done to deserve it – is much scarier. Because, if there’s no good explanation for why any specific person is suffering, it’s far harder to escape the frightening conclusion that it could easily be you next.'

I'm astounded at some of the attitudes on here, particularly' Idaho's.

Have you never heard of abuse? Poor mental heath?

All this guff about "choices" neglects these two major influences.

I went past Park Hill in Sheffield yesterday. Hundreds of homes shuttered up because the need investment.
I've been inside (years ago) and these are all well appointed flats.
What a waste.

I suspect (given the timing of their posts) that Idaho is a US troll "concerned citizen."

For all of you bewailing this situation- where exactly do you expect London councils to find affordable building land to provide the extra hundred thousand homes?

By the same token, where do you expect all the people necessary to clean your offices, work as hospital porters, sell you your groceries, drive your ambulances, nurse your old people, to live?

A city cannot survive if it becomes a gated community reserved only for the rich - because the rich don't do their own shit work!

A good start would be a moratorium on further council house sales. I'd go further - there are huge amounts of real estate sitting empty as tax losses/investments in London - I'd institute compulsory purchase schemes for some of them.

If you have more than you need, you’re not supposed to build a wall, you’re supposed to extend your dinner table, add some chairs and share what you don’t need

This analogy could go bad very quickly. What if they trash the table, fight amongst themselves, moan that the food is bad, bring shady characters, I could go on.

Shipping containers are a viable solution to the housing crisis. It depends more on how they are insulated and done up, if they are done substandard, well that’s what should be criticized, not the fact they are living in shipping containers.

women choose their family size

Are you shitting me? That's one of the most insulting things I've read so far today and I've already read a lot of tripe.

Women who are in relationships dominated by coercive control do not 'choose' their family size. Women who are prevented from accessing healthcare (and therefore contraception), who are repeatedly raped and fall pregnant, but prevented from having an abortion do not choose to bring children into the world.

What they do, is make the best of a horrific situation and try their best to protect those children for the rest of their lives. If that means running away from her rapist partner and being homeless, then so be it.

I was that woman. From the age of 14 to the age of 24. I'm happily married now, not well off but not struggling either. The children are older, we are settled and secure. But I will never, ever forget the winter we spent in temp accommodation, the 3 of us sharing a bed because the room was so cold at night you could see your breath.

And I will never be so complacent as to think that it couldn't happen to me again, no matter what steps I took to prevent it, or 'good' choices I made in my life.

Why assume that everywhere is as bad as the UK? Why not look at the facts?

Babdoc So thats tge only thing you took from the programme? the last bit at the end?

Nothing about the people this housing crisis has effected? nothing about how this housing crisis came about? just have go at one of the only people to wants to at least try and make a difference, working with what he's been given?

If he can show working template to councils, he then stand more of chance of councils, willing to put forward land, or buy up disused office blocks to pull down and use the land better.

The programme wasn't just about finding land, it was about get the government to change, to allow more money to councils, and change the way they approach housing.

Just checked what's happening in Finland:

"Per the latest statistics, the number of homeless people in Finland has declined from a high of 18,000 30 years ago, to approximately 7,000: the latter figure includes some 5,000 persons who are temporarily lodging with friends or relatives. In short, the problem has basically been solved."

'*hope your partner never leaves.' I meant to say. In essence, it can be true that you sympathise greatly with people who are struggling, but it can also be true that you are critical of people bringing children into the world when you know you can't meet their basic needs without a handout.

@JHaniver I agree. The children shouldn't be punished. They are the future after all, and should have the best possible start in life, and they should be helped where possible. But some parents fail their kids and reduce their chances of succeeding by dragging them into the poverty cycle... It needs to be looked at and not ignored, it seems be everyone else's fault but the parents themselves, and yes, virtue signallers come out in droves to protect their feelings should you dare mention this. Again, some. It's annoying constantly having to put disclaimers in what I say because people want to act disingenuous and as if people who are critical of irresponsible parents are in fact slagging off every single family ever that's been down on their luck. The argument always seems to be 'I hope you never lose your job/ I hope your partner leaves' when that's not what my argument was at all.

Leaving the thread now but at least we are all clear on what kind of people happily allow these situations to happen.

Such 'whataboutism' here.

You’ve used this phrase wrong. This would refer to “so they’re homeless, but what about all the people who caused it themselves!”

It doesn’t refer to people offering reasons why people may be in an unfortunate system.