Thousands of children forced to grow up in shipping containers

Ok, to all the people talking about 'poor choices' on this thread.

I'm a single parent of 3. We were given an eviction notice because the landlord decided he wanted to live in the house he was renting us. The council told me we'd have to go into a B&B or stay with my parents (in a 2-bed flat, where my brother also lived) 'temporarily' while they found us somewhere to live.

I chose my parents because the B&B was disgusting and had long-term drug addicts staying there.

We were there for 18 months - I couldn't get privately-rented accommodation because of the astronomical fees/upfront rent they wanted (some £2,000).

I was with my ex for 19 years. I was 20 when we got together, almost 40 when we split. We had 3 kids and were happy until the last year when he met someone else and decided he wanted out.

How fucking dare people insinuate that it was somehow my fault that we ended up 'homeless-from-home' (that's what it's known as) because I made a poor choice in partner. Nobody can see into the future - I certainly had no way of knowing that my partner was going to suddenly bail on us.

Maybe I should have put my kids up for adoption at that point? I'm guessing these posters want the workhouse bringing back too?

The full report is here:

www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/publication/bleak-houses/

I suggest some posters here read it before spouting off about 'poor choices' or their mate's lovely container eco-conversion.

A lot of accommodation is neither warm nor dry.

and yes, virtue signallers come out in droves to protect their feelings should you dare mention this

Odd that I should be called a virtue signaller. Almost 30 years in housing vulnerable people isn't a signal.

And choices are interesting. I chose to have a vodka aged 14. My bad choice. I didn't become addicted. Luck. I chose to have sex with less than fantastic men in my youth. Choice. I didn't get pregnant. Luck. I went out with a couple of controlling men. Choice. I got away. Luck. I emigrated with no job or plan. Choice. Everything worked out. Luck.

It's the luck, not the choices, that make the difference. And of course to quote Pulp, When the roaches climb the walls, you can call your dad and he'll make it alright Luck.

Rather then in a warm and dry shipping container than on the streets

When I worked on a deprived estate, we were taught about the cycle of deprivation. Kids being in third generation workless families. This is reality across huge parts of Britain.

Sure, but there will always be poor people. Do we really want to say they shouldn't have kids? In any case, a heck of a lot of children that are born are unplanned, and that applies to well off people as well.

The problem with telling poor people not to have children as it is ‘irresponsible’ is that there are an awful lot more poor people than wealthy people in this country.

1. how would you stop it? Eugenics?

2. there are a certain number of births needed in a country to replace old/ dead people. Who is going to do this if not poor people?

3. if everyone waited until they could ‘afford’ to have children, no-one would. Everyone has different standards for affordability and few people meet their own markers (based on anecdotal evidence).

I think the posts were addressed to one specific troll who seemed to think all people in poverty "brought it on themselves", Morris. Though I agree, the cycle of deprivation is a huge thing. If all you've ever known is poverty and a struggle from one benefits payment to the next, "choices" you could make to improve your lot won't even be on your radar.

Loads of people fall on hard times, for loads of reasons. But are posters suggesting that the majority of struggling families used to be comfortably off before their personal circumstances changed? It's unhelpful to imply that children are never actually born into poverty, but instead arrive there after something unexpected happening at home.

When I worked on a deprived estate, we were taught about the cycle of deprivation. Kids being in third generation workless families. This is reality across huge parts of Britain.

When I got pregnant I could afford my daughter by the END of my pregnancy I could not I was even made redundant three days before I gave birth how exactly was I supposed to know this 36 weeks prior and plan accordingly same as now how was I supposed to know my husband would be extremely abusive removed by the police and my baby would have special needs which means I need to give up work (temporarily I bloody hope) howcoukd i know that the school would drop the ball and not do what they need to do we are applying for universal credit I'm terrified we will become a statistic I fucking hate this we could end up living like this but clearly i should have known before I had children and not bothered right?

God forbid someone points out about people having personal accountability, and not having children when they can't afford to feed and house themselves/ the children they've already got. No, people shouldn't bloody have children if they knowingly can't offer them an adequate standard of living.

My mum could offer me a decent standard of living when she got pregnant. She could offer me one when I was born. She couldn't when I was 14 when, divorced for some years by then, she was made redundant. But according to you, she should have forseen that 15 years earlier and not had kids.

Fuck off, you're being ridiculous.

Surely the question isn’t whose to blame but rather what should we do to best ensure that any children (who already exist) are positioned to be law abiding and productive members of society?

I mean I know it’s awfully fun to feel morally superior to others but surely the kid is innocent in all this.

35percent.org/heygate-regeneration-faq/

Heygate estate regeneration
Affordable Housing

There is an entire page here charting the broken promises of replacement affordable housing on the new Heygate, showing how just 82 of the 2,704 new homes will be for social rent.

We need proper community housing. Like Somerford Grove which had different dwellings built for everyone at all different stages of their lives.

This problem goes further back than 1980
The 1953 White Paper stipulated the continuing of promotion by all possible means the building of houses for owner occupation.

In 1954 private housebuilders were freed from the obligation to secure building licences one of the main ways by which local authority housing had been prioritised in the immediate post war years.

The big change came with the 1954 Housing Act which required that future council efforts be concentrated on redevelopment RATHER THAN general needs.

Where we are now is the result of decades of changes going further back than 1980.

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/residents-near-tottenhams-new-stadium-18864998

Residents near Tottenham's new stadium fear they're being 'pushed out of area'

Plush new £1billion stadium couldn't be further away from Love Lane estate as tensions between club and locals grow.

Outside, you are standing on streets that are among the 5% most deprived in Britain.

The stadium redevelopment was an opportunity to lift the prospects of the people who live here.

But, instead, as the regeneration surrounding the stadium continues with a development known as High Road West, many families now fear they will simply be swept away.

A new walkway proposed to bring fans from a new station entrance at White Hart Lane station brings its own statistics. 297 social housing homes threatened with demolition in a borough with a severe housing shortage

Where 10,000 households are on the council’s waiting list and 3,000 families are stuck in temporary accommodation

Meanwhile, 30 small manufacturing businesses on the Peacock estate, providing hundreds of decent local jobs, are facing eviction via a ­compulsory purchase order.

The proposals will also mean the loss of a library

Balfron Tower

www.eastendreview.co.uk/2015/03/24/balfron-tower-poplar-harca/

@Chickenish
“On top of making sure that you are sorted before having children, you should also look into a crystal ball and make sure that nothing devastating will happen in the future.

‘Cos, you know, no one ever wakes up one day and discovers they are homeless or they have to run. hmm”

Yes! Said perfect.

stupid choices!?, how about the dads who have clearly abandoned their children with no fear of legal repercussions in the US and AUS men like that are prosecuted.

@Idaho999
“I dont know of any women who wake up one day and 'find' themselves in this position. It would be good if we could educate these women to make better choices to choose not to have children at all if it meant being subject to such lives until they are able to provide some sort of security and stability.”

You live very lucky and privilege life to not ever see this. I know women who husbands die, then they and children on street. Or husband beat them, so they run away- to street. Many these women good, in secure home with good money but it all come crashing down after children already born.

speyejoe2.wordpress.com/2019/08/09/affordable-social-at-497-83-pw-for-a-3-bed-25976-pa-rent-is-it-unlawful/

ht

wwwbrokenbarnet.blogspot.com/2016/01/the-last-betrayal-or-breaking-of-west.html

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/how-council-promises-have-fallen-away-leaving-west-hendon-estate-dire-straits

Its not just RTB that contributed to this problem. Its so called regeneration

Read up about Balfron Tower and the West Hendon estate.

Just thought I'd post a link to this thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3671502-WOMEN-LOCKED-OUT-OF-THE-HOUSING-MARKET-New-data-reveals-housing-is-unaffordable-for-women-in-every-English-region
with the facts and figures on how hard it is for a woman (the sort of woman who didn't have a crystal ball to see she'd married the wrong man... in other words an ordinary woman just like me and you, who got unlucky) to get even a rental home in most parts of the UK.

Rent on a family home (the sort you'd need with children) is 43% of the median female income.

Part of the problem with the converted office blocks in Harlow, are that they are on an industrial estate some considerable distance from shops, schools, doctors or other facilities . Also the fact that they are housing families alongside addicts.

Both of these are part of longstanding housing problems, not just in the UK but n many places. The difficulty of people who have serious social problems like addiction, or even outright criminality, being housed together with what you might call the stable poor or low income, makes it very difficult for those communities to be stable. It's a difficult problem to tackle too.

But the issue of putting the poor far away from services - that's a social choice. Maybe back in the 50s and 60s when they were building the first big housing projects people were a little naive about this and things just didn't go the way they planned, but we know now that this is something that needs to be considered. And yet consistently in larger cities the well-serviced urban areas are turning out the poor to build luxury housing for the rich and pushing the poor to the outskirts.

So - talking about poor choices...

To be clear, these are not exactly shipping containers but pre-fabs constructed out of shipping containers. Properly sited and constructed, they can fetch a tidy sum, but poorly located in direct sunlight with no insulation or A/C, they can be ovens and fridges.

I just watched the Sky News clip about a woman and her children living in one of these and I agree the placement and the way they have been renovated is less than ideal but I think the wider issue is much more than the fact it's a shipping container.

I know a wealthy man who moved abroad several years ago and he built a two storey, eco friendly house out of shipping containers and it's really quite lovely. It does need to be done properly though which is probably not happening for these people.

Part of the problem with the converted office blocks in Harlow, are that they are on an industrial estate some considerable distance from shops, schools, doctors or other facilities . Also the fact that they are housing families alongside addicts.

I live rurally and a bankrupt travel lodge type hotel has been turned into temporary accommodation. It is in the middle of nowhere surrounded by fields on a busy A road. There is no pavement and It is quite scary to watch Mothers pushing pushchairs in the road with lorries whizzing past to get to the nearest bus stop. There is one bus an hour and it is £3.50 to get to the nearest town. Their other option is a 25 min walk along the A road with no pavement to get to a small convenience store.

Theoretically, I don’t have a problem with portocabin type temporary accommodation, but it needs to be properly situated and affordable to heat etc.