Trans Widows Escape Committee 3: Rise of the Trans Widows

Quinn, it is perfectly normal for self to intrude on our thoughts when faced with extreme circumstances as well as in day to day life. Please be kind to yourself.

My ex is hospitalised with a serious illness and all I can think is how if he dies, I'm going to be the one stuck dealing with all of this. It's an ugly thought and I hate that I feel I'm a bad person for thinking about it this way.

Older's son is making me think.

He intuitively and unconsciously identifies himself as the same sex as his father, doesn't he? The parent he knows shares his physiological sex characteristic is modelling the trans paradigm and he's witnessing the whole context of his life shifting around this assertion-of-characteristic.

for you Older. To watch your husband doing this to your son is bad enough; to be forced to watch the whole world cheering him as he does it is a monstrous violation of your humanity.

What men do to their sons makes me sick. It makes us all sick. Especially when we can't voice it.

Tinsel, I read the story and also hope she finds her way here. I’m always amazed that no matter what, the patterns and behaviors are all the same. Even with this teenage boy in my case, I saw so many similarities. So sad.

Older, I just wanted to say I hope you're doing better and getting help for yourself.

"There was nothing inconsistent or unless about any of the feminist analysis"

Yeah - what she's been indoctrinated with was the male interpretation of the feminist analysis. Ie from the outside. It's the interpretation of an oppressor class trying to subsume and neutralise the danger (to men) of feminist analysis. The interpretation that patriarchy overwrites the feminist analysis of women with, in order to maintain itself.

Evolution of patriarchy in action.

I think she doesn't find him attractive now, compared to how attractive she found his not-masculinity before, because she's gained a deeper understanding of what masculinity looks like. Not in terms of skirts and makeup, but in terms of behavioural dynamics. And now she can see the damaging masculinity in him and it repulses her.

Reminds me of rapist number two. Brave and stunning now. He was beautiful then. Because I couldn't recognise his male-pattern behaviour.

Thank you, Tinsel! I’d say that’s quite an honor for my daughter! I’ll tell her one day. She’d be horrified to know I’m posting on this! Haha...

Spoils the rainbow parade made think: what else does it spoil? The illuson.

I've been posting on the AGP awareness thread and ideas about dominance are floating around in my head. I think the other thing wives who won't or can't play along spoil is the illusion of equality within the relationship. They dominate us by transitioning and they can't admit it or allow it to be admitted because it spoils their illusion of occupying the socially-constructed sexually-submissive role.

Agree. The relationships that apparently work post-transition are heavily-publicized, unlike those which don't (hence this thread as a place where people are free to share their negative experiences). Rather like detransitioners, partners-who-left are silenced as they sure spoil the rainbow parade.
Regarding love, the ability to put children first, and consider the needs of a partner, show them love and respect, kindness and care, seems to disappear when slome men transition mid-life. Several years on my ex shows an inabiity to put his children first, empathize with me or them, or work to make the impact of what he did less traumatic. I think the combination of focus on self/finding self/spending hours and hours clothes and make-up shopping, and endless time in front of the mirror, plus the current climate of celebration and validation, removes these men from any connection with their past lives, children, partners, wives.
My ex's transition was conducted without love or regard for anyone but himself; it's very painful to realize that someone didn't in fact love you, perhaps for many years, perhaps ever.
And regarding love for children, the irony of my ex's behaviour throughout, including even now in hiding from paying full child maintenance, is behaviour we don't see many WOMEN doing! It's real typical 'crap bloke' behaviour... putting yourself before your children I'm afraid isn't very female.

The rhetoric out there is that it can work out if you love the person.

Rhetoric designed to condition women to keep trying and trying and trying to keep a relationship with A Man going at all costs, regardless of the compound negative effects on herself.

Maybe it can work out if the person actually loves you, and understands that love (to quote Massive Attack) is a verb.

But one thing that rings true across all of our stories is that they understand love (as given by us) to be ongoing deeds while understanding love (as given by them) to be a verbal declaration that overrides their ongoing deeds.

Us loving them will never be enough to make things work, because they're not loving us in return.

You are all so very kind to welcome me here. Thank you. I shared with a few friends who do not know him because I didn't want to expose the kid. It was helpful to have a few confidants but after the initial conversation, it's not something you can bring up often. Unless you've been through it, you can't know how this affects your life in so many ways. So I was very relieved to find this thread. It has been very helpful to see that the pattern these guys follow is pretty much the same. The rhetoric out there is that it can work out if you love the person. But honestly, life really does become all about their comfort and well-being and the selfishness is astounding.

I wish much love to all of you, and join with you in rooting for Oldermum156. I think we are all concerned for her and would love to see her thrive outside of that toxic environment.

Inebriati, yes! You are right. I haven't looked it up but I'm fairly certain it is illegal here in the states. She did mention that to him and he went right on recording. He says he is not even going to listen to it. There was another situation where he secretly recorded a private meeting at school so I think there's some paranoia involved here. My daughter would never take it to the authorities and that's okay. Hopefully he will just keep it to himself.

I think everyone on this thread can relate to your concern about your daughter's trust issues. Both partners and children of transitioners often feel terribly betrayed, and troubled by wondering how long their partner or parent lived a secret life. At any age we question our judgement about whether we should have 'known', and whether this might happen to us again in some form of trusting someone who turns out not to be as you thought.
As for realizing he wanted to BE her, again, partners at any age have experienced this and find it unsettling, creepy or in some way exploitative.
Finally the personality changes are terribly familiar at whatever age: my ex-husband is now a very selfishand unkind individual, who acts in ways his former incarnation never did.
It may be protective to her not to feel anger; that may happen later or not at all. Not being angry, and feeling sorry for him may be easier than feeling that he treated her badly, which can be bewildering and so hurtful.
As a parent I can completely understand why you would feel protective rage.
These themes are very similar; the good news is that your daughter got out quickly when she found out, she had enough self-esteem to believe that she didn't have to put up with this (probably your good work), she now has some distance, and is hopefully of an age where she will become absorbed by her life and the pain will lessen. But it's a very tough experience at a young age and my heart goes out to you both.

Oh, bless her, Whatcan, give her a hug from me.

"He can't help it" is something you need to tackle, I think. Gently and wisely, of course, but in the long run that sort of thinking will make her come unstuck. But you can get your head around picking it apart and then help her to understand too.

I daresay she's right that he can't help it, in that he's not to blame for the world he was born into or the experiences he's had as a result of the adults around him. Blaming him will lead to defensiveness in her part because she has empathy, which is commendable.

Help her to explore the distinction between blame and responsibility. It's easy to say "He's not responsible for the way he's been raised," but he is sure as shit responsible for his actions, his words, and the pain they cause. It's not his fault he's eg been raised with male entitlement, but he has a responsibility as a human being to be receptive to the charge and prepared to adjust his behaviour accordingly. And if he shirks that responsibility, then she has a responsibility to look after herself by jettisoning him.

If a dog had been so badly abused that it couldn't help but bite, you might feel empathy but your responsibility would be to protect yourself and those around you as humanely as possible, not to take it into your home to absorb all its biting yourself.

Whatcanyoudo1 Depending on where you live it can be illegal to record someone without their knowledge and permission, so your daughter may be able to get the police involved.
She probably wont want to, to avoid stirring things up, but at 17 she is still a minor in most places.

Socialworker222, thank you so much for not dismissing the impact even though it was only a year in her young life. I am concerned the experience has left her with some trust issues, at the least. I was impressed by her maturity in breaking it off when she was still madly in love. I thought he loved her too but the more I ponder on it, I am realizing he was more infatuated with her because he wanted to BE her. The boy she loved is gone. She said his whole personality has changed. He has become unkind. This is someone she talked to all day, every day, for over a year. She went through all the stages of grief except anger. She still feels protective of him and feels she has no right to be angry when he "can't help it." I have also been through all the stages of grief.. I'm on my second round of the anger stage.

Tyro, thank you. This young guy has similar traits: artistic and brilliant yet lazy. Arrogant yet low self-esteem. (He admitted he has a God complex, which is interesting.) Depressed. He has a very unhealthy disdain for authority so has issues with his parents. Low moral compass... yes. He recorded their breakup on his cell phone! My daughter caught him doing it. That was extremely disturbing and I hope he doesn't have plans to use that in the future.

Whatcanyoudo how upsetting for your daughter. It is much harder for younger women than most of the women on this thread in the current climate. I am certainly surrounded by sceptical people but it is very hard to break up with someone because they do this without facing accusations of transphobia. She probably feels betrayed and lied-to and may find it sexually quite disturbing. I know I thought the visuals of my ex's dressing and transition repellant and intrusive and worried I would be unable to view men sexually the same in future. Sounds like your daughter could do with counselling so that she can talk frankly about her feelings. Break ups at that age can be devastating however short the relationship let alone with this. Plus social media means she will watch this unfold amidst cheers of admiration which makes not feeling celebratory much worse. She might want to filter and limit what she sees and reads. Way harder in my view. I k.agine she has friends who would also have ended the relationship, but may not feel able to say do in public. It would be good for her to find some people she can be open with. She needs to remember that she has freed herself from someone likely to go through great self-absorption ... Keep her focussed on where she wants her life to go.

There's more than one agp profile, I think. This thread mostly sees the fallout from middle-aged agps; they grew up in a very different world in a couple of key respects: the internet and the accessibility of porn, primarily. It's different for people who grew up online.

Interesting to think about what the agps of my acquaintance were like as young men though. Both musicians, both arrogant as hell, both depressed, both with problematic relationships with parents, both lacking a moral compass, both capable of Madiganesque behaviour. Both believed they were pro-women because they espoused the choosy-choice feminism that served their needs.