Depression and suicide attempts in women

There are massive spikes in divorce and suicide rates in women around the peri and post menopause age range.

At university, most women I knew had attempted suicide at least once (including me).

For me, it was definitely the cognitive dissonance of the "you can do/be anything!!/we are all equal!!" rhetoric and realising that most men and many women looked down on women and saw them as less than men.

That kind of stuff really fucked me up for a long time. I thought I would be taken seriously and I just wasn't.

I realised all this in hindsight, at the time, I just thought I was a fuck up.

I thought it was a cry for help?

As mentioned by a PP I strongly suspect a link between (peri)menopause and suicidal ideation. Would figure that other hormone fluctuations (pregnancy, maternity, period, hormonal birth control) could also be a factor for women at different ages and stages. I think this link is masked to a large extent by a number of societal factors. Too raw to go in to in more detail but i think much much more attention is needed on women presenting with depression when there are likely hormonal imbalances are at play. The symptom is treated as if all depression is the same. When in fact there could be a completely different treatment needed for these women (e.g. HRT).

More light on this please hive mind!

Strangely enough the "west" figures much much lower down the list.

I do't see why that's strange. I'm sure there are reasons for the suicide rates in those places as well, some may be the same, some not.

Whatisthisfuckery

My father has had a very similar experience to yours with mental health issues. He also has a diagnosis of bipolar, but I think in many cases MH diagnosis is a sort of educated guess. He did have a psychologist for a short time who suggested that he actually had BPD, which also seems to make sense. But in any case, his psychiatrist of many years has never had any real interest in getting to any kind of root of the problem, or made any attempt at any kind of actual therapy. It's all about the drugs, tweaking them, finding other drugs to manage the side-effects, sometimes making big changes.

It seems to be the norm in psychiatry since the newer drugs became avaialble.

Agreed that BPD is a sexist diagnosis, most women diagnosed with BPD seem to have experienced trauma and also meet the criteria for CPTSD. It reminds me of how they used to say women were suffering from 'hysteria.'

Maybe one issue is that CPTSD is still not officially recognised whilst PTSD is.

@Whatisthisfuckery That BPD/EUPD label is, for me, a huge feminist issue. The fact that a huge number of women are diagnosed with it when they are suffering the after effects of trauma is utterly scandalous. It is indeed a dustbin diagnosis and should almost always be seen in the context of CPTSD which has only recently been recognised officially.

There have been a spate of around 6 male suicides in my town and surrounding area recently, including a young lad of 19 in my village who my kids were at school with who hanged himself. There have been two separate mens clubs set up in response, interestingly I talked to the organisers of one at the weekend and his thinking was that by sorting men out they would be indirectly helping women as men are the root of many problems in the family!

There has also been a mixed sex group set up, and it is pretty amazing peer support and about building relationships and connections in the community.

I do also believe there is a very real need for female only mental health support, and this need is not being met. I bet the community would not be nearly as sympathetic to the cause as they are to male suicide.

what about men

I said: “When you get counselling for depression nobody ever asks you if you've experienced abuse, including abuse in childhood and domestic abuse. ”

Angela's Ashes replied:

This is not accurate. It is more accurate that a woman goes in with depression, and upon being asked and admitting a history of abuse is labelled with EUPD or if lucky cPTSD and then put into a treatment cycle for unstable emotions or trauma while the depression is ignored.
Essentially, the fact she was abused is held against her and used as an excuse as to why she is not suffering from depression but a personality disorder or trauma caused hyper sensitivity.

It's very presumptuous of you to assume you know what happens in every woman's counselling session.

I was referring to my own personal experience. I had years of counselling for depression and anxiety. Not one therapist out of about 15 asked if I had ever been abused. It was only when I experienced domestic abuse that I was referred to a trauma specialist that I realised I had experienced abuse prior to my abusive relationship and was diagnosed with (C)PTSD.

I know many other abuse survivors with a similar experience to me. You may know the theory but what you describe does not happen in practice. It is a major failing point for women who are not getting the right support and treatment.

yes there are loads of gaps in MH it’s wide for women and wider for men.

I'd disagree. It's probably a similar size for both, just the gaps are different.

And CAMHS send to be mainly gaps, given the thresholds are so high.

There have been a couple of articles in the Irish Times in recent months about how the numbers of young women completing suicide in certain areas of Dublin is now equally men.

In late 2018 Ireland had the highest rate of suicide for girls in the EU.

From the last link below...

It is the first time, anywhere in the State, that women are taking their own lives in the same numbers as men.

“There is a new profile of women dying by suicide (early 20s to mid 30s),” an internal HSE memo to psychiatric teams in the Dublin South-Central community healthcare organisation (CHO) warned last month.

The women generally have “small primary school children, [aged] one-plus up to teenagers”, with backgrounds marked by poverty, early school leaving, homelessness, adverse childhood experiences and drug and substance misuse."

Https:www.irishtimes.com/news/health/irish-suicide-rate-for-girls-highest-in-eu-report-shows-1.3688028

www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/suicides-of-young-women-must-give-concern-mourners-told-1.3955090

www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/bereft-dublin-locality-pulls-together-in-wake-of-suicides-1.3965100?mode=amp#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/why-are-young-mothers-taking-their-own-lives-1.3533996
Some incredibly sad reading.

to all of you who have and are still struggling

@AnotherAdultHumanFemale
“When you get counselling for depression nobody ever asks you if you've experienced abuse, including abuse in childhood and domestic abuse. ”

This is not accurate. It is more accurate that a woman goes in with depression, and upon being asked and admitting a history of abuse is labelled with EUPD or if lucky cPTSD and then put into a treatment cycle for unstable emotions or trauma while the depression is ignored.
Essentially, the fact she was abused is held against her and used as an excuse as to why she is not suffering from depression but a personality disorder or trauma caused hyper sensitivity

To answer OPs question...yes there are loads of gaps in MH it’s wide for women and wider for men.

Here it is on BBC
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49329595

So there are not only gender differences but generational differences in suicide rates.

An interesting article pointed out that since 1993, Generation X, those born 1965-1980, have had the highest suicide rate of ALL generations. Yes, from 1993 up to and including 2019 Generation X is mostly likely to commit suicide. So the average age of a person committing suicide has gotten older as Gen X aged and matches their ages.

According to various things I've read over the years, men are more likely to commit suicide because they bottle it all up and then use far more violent methods which don't allow for second thoughts.

One of my DS spent a couple of years in his early teens contemplating suicide on a more or less daily basis. It was terrifying. But I knew how bad he was and although he wouldn't talk to me I used to talk to him.

He still suffers from depression but he tells me those years immunised him against suicide.

My own situation is better now than it has been for many years. Mumsnet taught me that I might have ASD. I asked my GP about impaired executive function, showed him photos of my house, and was referred. I have fallen into to the arms of a wonderful psychologist who, as well as my chronic depression and anxiety, has diagnosed ASD and dyspraxia. She's passed me to a psychiatrist, the ASD people, and I now have a support worker. I have all these people trying to help me. It's so encouraging.

Is there a gap here in addressing womens’ mental health?

Let's have a look at what women go through...

*abuse in childhood (sexual,physical,mental)

*rape

*domestic violence

*being left with significant trauma like PTSD from those incidents or pregnancy

*being forced to run with just their clothes on their back and their kids in a refuge/or being left without a penny or home in a breakup

*treatment that in many cases is not fit for purpose or not originally aimed at women to begin with

*the shocking lack of ability a d services to diagnose autism in women and girls

*stigma and shaming for whatever they do (divorcing/staying, breastfeeding/not breastfeeding, working/not working)

*immense pressure to have it all and be all

*going back to pregnancy mental,emotional and/or physical trauma . For some unlucky women they get it all , maimed body,pain,PTSD,PND etc.

*on the other side of the coin there's difficulty conceiving, painful and expensive treatment (whether the problem is with them or not) and dealing with loss and heartbreak.

That's just of the top off my head.
Then we add in a reluctance to diagnose,to take women seriously, a severe lack of resources,services and support and yes,not only is there a massive gap in supporting women's mental health, but society ,laws and environment actively contribute to the deterioration of their mental health.

Can I also add the issue of mental health issues related to birth control.

I yo-yo badly on the pill and am rock steady without it. Took me two decades to realise and then only worked it out by accident.

This is women specific and appears poorly researched (as is women specific related response to medication in general).

to Whatisthisfuckery and Hugs

What I find interesting is that there are no stats about murder-suicide/family annihilators ,which tend to be predominantly men.

Only thing I could find is that in America they estimate there are 11 such incidents a week.

I tend to think the elephant in the room is that the frequency of mental health problems in the west is significantly related to the way we live, and it's pretty well known that certain types of changes could make a significant difference to the problem. *

Top 10 countries by suicide rates.

Strangely enough the "west" figures much much lower down the list.

The US is 30 something and UK 109.

I know this is from 2016,but still.

I read somewhere that the highest prevalence of suicide for women is between the ages 50 and 54.

That could suggest a link to the menopause.

Oh, and to add, MH services are utterly useless for women. I have a diagnosis of bipolar, which I’m still not sure about tbh. It seemed correct at the time, and a bit of a comforting label to put on what was going on with me. I’m not convinced though. I think my MH problems were caused by a difficult childhood, then being in an emotionally and physically abusive marriage. I didn’t even realise it was abusive for several years after leaving. I was trying to keep things calm for the sake of our child, but as I started to realise it became harder for me to keep up the front. Also H was getting deeper into the drink and it stripped away his vineer of civility.It’s like all the layers pealed away and all that was left was the ugly naked truth of him.

Nobody ever asked me about my past, or whether my problems had a deeper cause. When I finally came to terms with the abuse I’d suffered I was scared to say anything, as my psychiatrist had already slapped the EUPD (emotionally unstable personality disorder) label on me, despite me not fitting the criteria whatsoever. The last thing I wanted to do was to speak up about what I really thought was going on as that would definitely consign me to the personality disorder bin they have for ‘difficult’ people.

MH services are all about medication. That’s basically it. There’s no meaningful talking therapy available, or not in my area at least, and it’s all about treating the symptoms rather than getting to the bottom of the cause. I had a round of therapy once, but all the woman wanted to do was relaxation techniques and breathing. That was no use to me so I quit after a couple of sessions. There isn’t the resources to offer proper in-depth therapy, and I strongly suspect the stigma of trauma and abuse would prevent them from being used to their full potential even if there was.