The Biology of Fatherhood

I am not trying to dismiss biology, I just don’t get what physical biological methods are beingbinvoked her that apply to the biological dad and not a stable male adult. Given what we also know about women sometimes choosing to use one person as the stud and another as the stable father figure.and getting away with it.

THe problems I have with surrogacy are first that the baby has known in someone way the mother for 9 months. New born babies recognise the voice and heartbeat. Removing a child etherefore will disrupt the child life. But more, the idea that a child can be bought. SLaves were bought.

I'm another not very impressed by the cited article. I also think you're overinterpreting it - there's really not very much about biology as opposed to the much more obvious social effects. For example the paper on risky sexual behaviour shows the adverse effect of family breakup, and nothing about the presence of a biological father.

To repeat what others said - there's no evidence that a pair of women can't coparent just as effectively (or more effectively) as a mixed sex couple.

There are so many variables in a childhood that lasts 18 years after nine months of pregnancy.

Of course having a lovely father present is an advantage, as is having a good diet, growing up in a family with clear and reasonable boundaries, a loving extended family living nearby, going to a good school, having educated parents and parents that weren't themselves traumatised as children, etc. etc. etc.

I'm all for good fathers. Unfortunately this kind of news item results in women thinking that they have to put up with appalling husbands for the sake of the children and that is where the trouble starts.

Other than the pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding I think it is completely irrelevant to being a good parent.

That is a pretty powerful bond that's formed.

Some responses in this thread feel quite knee-jerk, as if men aren't accepted as having any place of importance in their children's lives.

I do't know about the idea that biological relation is irelevent. Lots of regular posters talk about surrogacy as being a problem in terms of the rights of the child, and that is in terms of biology, the mother who carried the child, or the mother who donated her egg.

That's a pretty intimately biological link and clearly many think it is important. From that perspective I can't see the father as being less important than an egg donor.

I don't know that I'd think of it as a direct feminist issue though clearly the role of fathers crosses over in all kinds of ways, in terms of talking about what is good for children, what is good for partners, and so on. I do however think its a timely issue, far more children today grow up without fathers around.

Because if we are asking young men to step up and they have not had good fathering themselves we need to be able to give them concentrate steps with evidence of what works and why it works

Boys need good male role models - that can be anyone from Grandad to Uncle to a teacher at school. It doesn't need to be their Dad.

It's the idea that biology is irrelevant that gives us gender theory

Other than the pregnancy, birth and breastfeeding I think it is completely irrelevant to being a good parent.

actullay not sure what discussions you are referring to when you talk about the importance of women’sbiologyto motherhood ...beyond the pure biology of conception birth and feeding

Me neither. Surely these outcomes are socio-economic and cultural?

Throwing in a huge generalisation but setting aside poor Liam Fee's monstrous Lesbian parents I would assume that a lesbian couple who have made a very deliberate choice to be parents are probably likely to maintain stable relationships.

Ida I'd love to look at Biology. It's my favourite. But that first article isn't it.

You’ve just muddled up two things OP that’s all.
It’s a perfectly respectable question to ask whether children benefit from having a father in the house.But I don’t think this article is a great starting point. Someone who can write “ the importance of dads has, until recently, been neglected” is historically illiterate (to put it gently....)

actullay not sure what discussions you are referring to when you talk about the importance of women’s biology to motherhood ...beyond the pure biology of conception birth and feeding ...and I am sure everyone’s here understands the Male input

I don’t understand how the alleged positive observations in the children are anything to do with the father’s biology.

I’m more than happy to talk about the realities of Male biology (their narrow hips and facial hair, etc) but this seems to be more about something else.

I suspect most absent fathers don't give a shit one way or another if their presence has a positive effect on their children,research or no research.

What we know more than anything is that children thrive in loving homes where there is an absence of violence and conflict.

I don't see how this is anything to do with feminism. Many women already fight desperately to keep their families together despite their husbands being utter arseholes because of the stigma of 'broken' families and because they tell themselves their partner is a 'good dad' because he doesn't smack them about. The bar is set terribly low as it is.

I'm not impressed with the original article in OP as it's hard to find the sources - a lot of the links just go to more articles on the same site and those that do go somewhere don't take me to scientific studies like the one SpartacusAutisticus linked to. I don't see masses of "biology" in that first article.

Because it’s not obvious that it’s anything to do with biology.

AND it’s not obvious a feminism issue

As soon as the biological father is replaced, family stability has been destroyed . You can not separate biology easily. I think it is less controversial to say that children need to form good human bonds before the age of two which is why adoption of older children can be problematical. J

A much more interesting question about male biology might be if violence is purely socialisation or horm9nally influenced.