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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Horrifying TED talk on trans children by paediatric endocrinologist.

56 replies

TurboTeddy · 09/08/2019 21:19

This was posted on Lily Maynard's twitter.

The callous way in which the doctor discusses the "elimination" of reproductive capability and uses that as an excuse to perform surgery at an early age is horrifying. She makes no mention of loss of sexual function or rather failure to develop sexual function.

Surgery on adolescents is discussed as a challenge to be met by pioneering surgeons. She almost seemed proud that she was great at her job neutering children she and was inviting the surgeons to step up and prove they were equal to her.

It's difficult to even find words to describe how wrong this is and so blatant, it almost feels boastful. I've worked with many Drs who would say that just because you can it doesn't mean you should. Is medical ethics out of fashion?

twitter.com/LilyLilyMaynard/status/1159619154984484864?s=20

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GirlRaisedInTheSouth · 12/08/2019 02:02

I’m always a bit suspicious in families where the ‘trans’ child is the only child of that sex. For instance, the 3rd or 4th boy who ‘wants to be a girl.’ I always wonder whether the families just wanted a child of that sex. Having spent a lot of time on Pre-Conception Sex Selection forums, I have seen how strong the desire for a child of a particular sex can be.

GirlRaisedInTheSouth · 12/08/2019 01:54

Why do so many TRAs push for surgery for young people, but want to keep their own penises?

FloridaOrange · 12/08/2019 01:23

This will be signposted as a case study in years to come (I hope).

Gunk · 11/08/2019 13:36

How on earth can Avery be “a girl with a penis” if they were never allowed to live as a boy?

StarGOLD · 11/08/2019 11:08

This talk highlights to me the role parents have in developing a ‘special’ child..”they were handed a daughter with a penis”...Who talks like that? Did ‘Avery’ ever stand a chance..? So scary..and the precise robot delivery of that talk is frankly Sci-Fi-esque.

Forgotthebins · 11/08/2019 10:46

She reminds me of the Mrs Coulter character from Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" trilogy, the posh and cold lady who sets up the obscure hospital that researches how to "sever" children so that they never mature sexually and become capable of "sin" (until she finds her own child next to the guillotine and suddenly severing THAT particular child doesn't seem so morally uplifting).

The worst bit was when she said she wanted the criteria for under-age surgery to be based on how long the child had lived in gender role, thus rewarding the Munhausens by Proxy parents who trans their newborn, and quack doctors such as herself who enable them.

XXcstatic · 11/08/2019 08:51

I don't see how any "vagina" created from intestines can have any sensation at all, let alone any sense of pleasure

It won't have. The gut doesn't have the right sort of nerve receptors. Penetration of the 'vagina' will probably stimulate the prostate gland to some extent but I doubt it would be enough to orgasm. If post-surgery TW can orgasm, it's probably through direct prostate massage via the rectum.

In an adult who has experience sexual pleasure, and knowingly chooses to forego it, having been properly counselled about post-op sexual function, that is arguably their choice. To do this to a child or to a young adult who has been on PBs/cross-sex hormones, so has never experienced normal sexual function, is absolutely appalling.

SlipperyLizard · 11/08/2019 08:30

Argh, composite character!

SlipperyLizard · 11/08/2019 08:30

My impression was that Avery is a composite chart, no doubt based in reality. In particular the Avery whose reproductive potential has been eliminated is, I think, a vision of what this awful doctor’s “preferred” treatment of such a young person would be. But I can’t bring myself to watch it again to confirm that impression.

Anyone complicit in this will surely face a tsunami of law suits in the next 10-20 years, and the world will say “how was this allowed to happen?”. I for one am glad I’m on the side trying to stop it.

Voice0fReason · 10/08/2019 22:52

I don't see how any "vagina" created from intestines can have any sensation at all, let alone any sense of pleasure.
This is barbaric.

CigarsofthePharoahs · 10/08/2019 21:48

She might as well have just got up there and said "Hello, I advocate poisoning and mutilating children! Go me, I'm so PROGRESSIVE."
Sorry if I'm being a bit crude, but I could feel my blood pressure rising more and more as she spoke.
A newborn baby isn't sodding transgender. A preschooler isn't transgender. A twelve year old who has been repeatedly told by their parents that they're the opposite sex isn't transgender, they're brainwashed.

NonnyMouse1337 · 10/08/2019 20:41

Thanks for the link, TurboTeddy. I feel really bad for Jazz. Who knows what the long term implications are for them not having gone through puberty.
I found the article annoying in mentioning that gender affirmation forgery gives the functionality of the desired genitalia. It clearly doesn't. Hmm

Sewing part of your colon, intestine or stomach lining (?) onto the base of your penis and shoving that up inside a surgically made wound, instead of just "inverting" the whole penis with the tip cut off.

Bowel and arm skin are 2 I can think of

Good thing I've not eaten yet....

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/08/2019 09:43

Given the complete absence of medical ethics in her TED talk I wouldn't be remotely surprised if Avery is a real patient. If you're going to practice medicine like that then what's a bit of confidentiality breaching between friends?

XXcstatic · 10/08/2019 09:39

I’ve seen it so many times and experienced it personally. I’ve had parents cancel and the reason given being “we’ve seen Dr [insert name of quack] who finally diagnosed [insert quack condition like pyroluria etc] that Dr NotBad refused to test for [because it’s bullshit]”. Mostly I just roll my eyes, but in Avery’s case I can imagine there are good doctors out there who watch that video and are horrified about it because they probably met the child and parents and tried their best

Agree. I have often seen this with children, and even more often with adults.

I think Avery is likely a composite but, if she is real, her parents have probably given permission to use her case - after all, they've already made her infertile, so what's one more boundary violation?

NotBadConsidering · 10/08/2019 09:30

If the case is real (shudder), then I would not be surprised to discover there was a long line of doctors who were consulted, who were probably initially sensible, kind, advised the parents idea was a bit silly, followed by at least one doctor who raised child protection concerns and was a bit more forthright, before finally the parents found someone who told them what they wanted to hear. I’ve seen it so many times and experienced it personally. I’ve had parents cancel and the reason given being “we’ve seen Dr [insert name of quack] who finally diagnosed [insert quack condition like pyroluria etc] that Dr NotBad refused to test for [because it’s bullshit]”. Mostly I just roll my eyes, but in Avery’s case I can imagine there are good doctors out there who watch that video and are horrified about it because they probably met the child and parents and tried their best.

TurboTeddy · 10/08/2019 09:22

Prawnofthepatriarchy
Do you think it's real or just an invented story to make her case? The opening section about Avery's "girly" morning routine came across as a manipulative work of fiction.

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Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/08/2019 09:13

The case study of Avery she provides is so very explicit, unusual and therefore outing that to my mind it breaches medical confidentiality.

I grew up in a medical household so was very aware of confidentiality from childhood and this really shouts out to me. It might have been ok in a closed meeting but in a TED talk? No. Just no.

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 10/08/2019 09:08

This is truly horrifying. I hope that one day this video will be used in evidence in court against this wicked doctor.

WrathofSWhlttleKIop · 10/08/2019 09:05

This is a medical condition invented by the medics and big pharma.

Iatrogenesis - Medical conditions caused by doctors.

Doctors can say no.
Doctors should say no.

TurboTeddy · 10/08/2019 08:57

My tablet powered down before I could finish my last post but just wanted to mention John Money was a psychologist and "sexologist" not a surgeon.

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ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 10/08/2019 08:50

This is eugenics. It is a crime against humanity. Its supporters nothing but modern day Mengeles.

They call m e transphobe? Whatever. That word just means 'not a eugenicist'.

soloula · 10/08/2019 08:46

This is just horrifying...

clitherow · 10/08/2019 08:44

that assumes that the TED organisers have some magical insight into which ideas are good or bad.

They don't need magical insight - they just need global reach and influence.

TurboTeddy · 10/08/2019 08:41

This is an article about John Money's experiment on David Reimer, the SRS case after botched circumcision. John Money's wiki page is also worth a visit for info on his veiws about adult/child relationships. The content of then article isn't graphic but its not comfortable reading.

embryo.asu.edu/pages/david-reimer-and-john-money-gender-reassignment-controversy-johnjoan-case

What we learn in this case is that two doctors used experimental techniques to cause irreparable harm to a child.

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SarahTancredi · 10/08/2019 08:34

How on earth does she differentiate between the parent's wants and the child's needs? This makes a mockery of the oath "First do no harm"
How, as a dr , when she has seen and/or heard if children going through all.sorts of horrific things. The.medical.profession must have seen.hundreds of cases of pregnant 12 year olds or rape victims ,.abused children etc and then have the audacity to stand in front of hundreds of people and tall about a kid who cant decide between shorts or dress and what shoes to wear.

2 thirds of girls are far more concerned with whether or not they will get harassed that day than unicorn back packs 🙄