Isn't Helen Webberley still prevented from providing services in UK?

Hi @Cw19752

I'm a tad confused by your post.

You claim to have had "female to male" surgery. How? It isn't possible to change sex.

Also, you state that you were confused when your mother dressed you in skirts as a child. Why? Skirts have nothing to do with your biological sex. Anywhere can wear a skirt.

I know this is an old thread, but you are all very misinformed about the services Dr Webberley had offered her trans patients. I am a 44 year old female to Male patient of gendergp and I can honestly say that Doctor Webberley, her husband and their team were and still are more experienced than most of the NHS gender clinic specialists. They show the compassion and understanding that is lacking in the NHS. They didn’t dish gender altering drugs out to all and sundry. I had to go through assessments and also a counselling session before I was even considered for treatment. If there is one once of doubt then treatment in the form of hormone therapy would not be offered and a more support based treatment would be offered. I know if this support had been around when I was as young as 6 or 7 then giving me puberty blockers to stall my puberty until I was old enough to be considered for testosterone would have stopped 38 years of me despising myself and the depression and social anxiety that it brought on. If you think children aren’t capable of knowing what gender they feel they are then you are very short sighted. I remember when I was three years old and being very confused as to why my mother was dressing me in skirts when I knew i was a boy. I am not trying to start an argument but thought it might be beneficial for you all to hear from an older trans person about how they felt as a child. I am guessing you have always felt the same gender that matched your physical appearance so I can see how it’s hard to relate to and understand but all I ask is that you open your minds and give children who feel this way the support needed and access to proper healthcare because as it stands, the NHS is failing all Transgender people miserably. Dr Webberley is highly respected all over the world except in the UK - it is our NHS medical system that is failing and not Dr Webberley. I would not be alive today if I had not found Dr Webberley and been assessed for treatment. Do not get fished in by the negative media nonsense around Dr Webberley - half of it is untrue or twisted negatively to sell newspapers. If you have any questions I am more than happy to answer them ✌🏻

A well-respected prescribing model? That resulted in the Webberleys being suspended? How do those things fit together?

Helen Webberley tribunal review case hearing 2nd August 2019. Outcome: Suspension maintained
Mike Webberley tribunal review case hearing 5th August 2019. Outcome: Suspension maintained. t.co/uS5wmDV6g2

Are no checks made on who has written prescriptions and whether they are legally allowed to do so?

I don't know enough about how pharmacists work to answer that, but I'd be amazed if they check routinely, given the number of prescriptions they process. I'd guess that they only check if a script raises suspicions - and that's more likely to be if it looks forged or altered than concerns about what's actually prescribed, unless it's something really obviously dodgy like 1000 temazepam. I doubt many pharmacists would be put on alert by a PB script. But hopefully an actual pharmacist will comment on this thread.

Thanks for that link, umbel. From that it looks as though other doctors are now writing the prescriptions.

Mike and I are unable to prescribe any more but we have taken safe and secure steps to make sure that nobody is without care while we wait for the NHS to step up to the mark. We have moved the management hub of GenderGP and the medical care outside of the UK until it is safe to bring it back. Our European doctors have been specially trained to advise and prescribe for you, once you have undergone the GenderGP appraisal pathway that has become so popular and well-respected.

This means that your medication will continue, nobody will come to harm. The prescriptions will go to ClearChemist as usual and be delivered to you in the same way. Your GP will receive treatment summaries which will instruct them what to prescribe and what blood tests they need to do if they do not feel able to look after you by themselves.

So the rogue doctor thinks so much of herself, that she thinks she can 'instruct' other doctors about what they should be prescribing.

Chemists would need access to a database of all doctors in the EU , but I doubt that exists.

www.chemistanddruggist.co.uk/feature/foreign-scripts-qa

How can I check if an EEA/Swiss prescription is genuine?
In order to check if an EEA/Swiss prescription is genuine and written by an appropriate authorised practitioner, the pharmacist may need to contact the registering body of doctors or dentists of the relevant EEA country/Switzerland (equivalent of the GMC or GDC in the UK, respectively).

This implies that the pharmacist has responsibility for checking that a foreign prescription is genuine, and that the doctor is registered. A check with the GMC would show that Webberley is suspended, regardless of where she sends prescriptions from. Clear Chemist must know this, and shouldn't be sending patients to her. The regulators should be acting on this and not telling people who complain that the pharmacy has done nothing wrong. I think they may have removed her GMC number from their site following complaints, but they still mention her and her illegally-run clinic by name.

According to this statement, they have Employed and trained European doctors to do the prescribing, under their guidance.🤨

gendergp.co.uk/gendergp-will-care-for-you-as-long-as-you-need-us-to/

Are no checks made on who has written prescriptions and whether they are legally allowed to do so?

Chemists would need access to a database of all doctors in the EU , but I doubt that exists.

XXcstatic
I still don't see how it can be legal for a pharmacy to dispense drugs prescribed by a suspended doctor, wherever that doctor is based. Clear Chemist say:

A private prescription is usually printed on the right side of NHS prescription stationer in general practice, or written on headed notepaper, although, in theory any piece of paper is legal. It must bear the name of the prescriber, preferably with his or her GMC number, Practice address and telephone number.

So they would have Webberley's GMC number on the prescription, and a check would show that she is suspended. How is this legal if she is sending prescriptions from Spain, but not if she does so within the UK? Are no checks made on who has written prescriptions and whether they are legally allowed to do so?

But they would need legislation to change it and I can't see that happening

Fair enough XX you are right that the political agenda right now is pretty full with Brexit and a new government bedding in, to say the least.

But regardless of that, which can’t be a permanent situation- when legislation is wrong, absent or insufficient it needs to be changed. The permanent effects of the medical, hormonal and surgical transing of kids (who can’t consent to that, by definition), is going to be increasingly unacceptable to the public as this dogma gets more sunlight and fresh air and the awful human cost to children and young people and women is increasingly revealed.

With informed public and Parliamentary concern for children and young people and women, I think it’s highly likely that MPs would feel the law should be changed.

And even where law change seemed vanishingly unlikely or a struggle of generations- like with women’s votes, abortion law reform or decriminalisation of homosexuality just to pick a few examples.. if people didn’t campaign on it because they couldn’t see change happening then it wouldn’t have happened at all or would have taken even longer. I feel that this is totally avoidable, un-evidence-based harm that is being done so as political fixes go it is really not a massive leap for Parliament to look at this. So it’s a question of alerting MPs to it and asking them the hard questions about why the law currently says it’s OK to treat kids like this.

But they would need legislation to change it and I can't see that happening.

So is it legal for a UK pharmacy to dispense drugs to UK patients using a prescription written by a doctor anywhere in the world? Regardless of whether that doctor is fit to practice or even qualified? Because if Helen Webberley can write prescriptions from Spain whilst suspended and have a UK pharmacy dispense the drugs, then anyone else can do the same, even without a medical degree.

It is astonishing that the regulators see nothing wrong with a UK pharmacy promoting and sending patients to a doctor who is based overseas and who is not allowed to practice in the UK

Trust me, the regulators hate it! It's a problem with a huge number of drugs, not just PBs.

But they would need legislation to change it and I can't see that happening. Brexit will - ironically - only make it harder because, to be effective, the law would have to be able to impose sanctions on a resident of another country. It's no good just trying to stop UK-trained doctors doing this from abroad as Mermaids & co could just use an EU doctor instead. What is really needed is EU-wide legislation, banning prescribing by a doctor who is not in the same country as the patient. Sod all chance of that happening post-Brexit.

Even though he understood he would need to wait, to ensure he was ready for the irreversible changes to his gender identity, going through puberty “devastated him.”

Female puberty might be an obvious sign that you are female, and many women find female puberty difficult.

However, it's difficult to understand how it would be more devastating than coming to terms with the fact that no surgery or drugs can fully create the effects of male puberty or a functioning penis; or lifelong dependence on drugs in a world where access to medicine is not guaranteed.

Now fifteen, Leo will soon be finishing his course of puberty blockers and start hormone replacement therapy, where he will receive the testosterone that will give him the male characteristics that are in line with his identity.

No, they won't. Neither drugs nor surgery can create a male body.

Unfortunately, there is also nothing the GMC can do to stop her from prescribing for UK private patients from abroad while suspended.

So is it legal for a UK pharmacy to dispense these drugs to UK patients using her prescriptions? This is what seems to be happening with Webberley and Clear Chemist.

Webberley is still promoting her illegal services via a UK based online pharmacy, Clear Chemist.

www.clearchemist.co.uk/doctor/talk-to-a-doctor

This has been reported to the regulators, but they seem reluctant to take action. They did say that they might do something if they received more complaints (see the other thread I linked to for details). It is astonishing that the regulators see nothing wrong with a UK pharmacy promoting and sending patients to a doctor who is based overseas and who is not allowed to practice in the UK.

ChattyLion I agree. Even though the law would be difficult to enforce, it should still be against the law to prescribe for people in the UK when not registered with the GMC or NMC. I suspect there is stuff-all chance of it happening though.

A lot of media stuff like this is just cock-up. The reporter has made a very bad call but while sub-editors can spot a breach of eg court restrictions a mile off, some stuff has to be taken on trust that the reporter writing it has done due process - eg that an expert quoted is the right person to talk to

Make a complaint. If I used a medical expert who’d been suspended for the subject they were opining on in an article I’d have been in a world of trouble.

Unfortunately, there is also nothing the GMC can do to stop her from prescribing for UK private patients from abroad while suspended.

I have wondered about this. There are some instances where doctors operate on boats by taking patients out to international waters to get around legal restrictions in their countries ((like those amazing abortion ships- see Women on Web) so I guess this is the flip side of that.

But given what we know about the non-reversible and serious effects of these drugs and how easily kids can be influenced online by thinking such drugs are just a ‘pause button’ and fine to take (or how they may be encouraged to believe that if they don’t rush into taking these drugs before the NHS will give them to them, then there is no other way for them to feel better or they will not be able to have a happy outcome as an adult)...
Then doesn’t this mean that current UK laws we have are insufficient to protect children (in particular) but also vulnerable adults who are in the UK?

If there isn’t any restriction about importing these very powerful prescription drugs to the UK or exporting from Spain or there isn’t any requirement to see the patient in person (not over phone or video chat) before doctors in Europe or elsewhere before prescribing these very powerful drugs- or whatever other necessary protections are not currently in place- then don’t we need to campaign for a proper investigation and if needed, dependent on the outcome, new, better legal protections for children and vulnerable adults via UK law?
This is the kind of question to raise with UK MPs, because only they have the power to change this situation.

There may be other routes MPs could take but one way could be that they should investigate how in general young people are getting prescribed these drugs via a Health and Social Care select committee inquiry. That could then also look at how the NHS and UK private doctors are prescribing them which we know whistleblowing UK doctors have raised concerns about.

Then if MPs think this is potentially concerning, and if they don’t like what they discover, they should change the law.

I didn't know that. I assumed 'suspended' meant temporary and 'struck off' was permanent

You're right. What I mean is that the things that she is not allowed to do when suspended are the same as the things that she wouldn't be allowed to do if struck off.

Most doctors would be trying to behave very well at this stage, and to show contrition for whatever got them suspended in the first place, in the hope of avoiding being struck off. However, Webberley has already blown her chances of that by prescribing from Spain (which the GMC will hate, but is powerless to prevent), so she doesn't have anything to lose by winding the GMC up further with media appearance.

She's already suspended, which I has the same effect as being struck off. It's not permanent, but neither is being struck off in most cases.

I didn't know that. I assumed 'suspended' meant temporary and 'struck off' was permanent.

Helen Webberley also seems to be continuing to operate her illegal clinic, and the regulators don't seem to be interested. See the last few posts in this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3625515-Patient-of-webberlys-commits-suicide?pg=7

It's not clear who is actually writing the prescriptions for Clear Chemist now, as I assume the Webberleys can't legally do this as they are suspended.

She's already suspended, which I has the same effect as being struck off. It's not permanent, but neither is being struck off in most cases. However,because she is prescribing from Spain while suspended (according to socialmedia), it's unlikely that the GMC will ever allow her to practise in the UK again.

Basically, the GMC is limbering up to throw the book at her about her prescribing but there's not much it can do about media appearances . Retired or struck off doctors often work in the media - you don't need GMC registration.