If I'm a feminist but not radical or liberal, what am I?

I find it very silencing, the idea that we're not allowed to create definitions and labels.

Feminism has got so weird lately. It's really changed. I completely agree with you about the labels and definitions. Except that I don't think people not liking them is silencing. It would only be silencing if they had a point.

Well, when labels and disagreements are framed as heresy then yes, there will be push back against that, because one of the most useful ideas in broader feminism is that of unity and solidarity between women against the patriarchy, and any old fool knows the phrase 'divide and conquer'.

If the OP is in good faith and just wants to discuss specifics within feminism, then ok. All I and others have pointed out is that it's a difficult thing to do here in the current climate, and as I said, my response was borne out of concern that the OP was worried that she didn't fit because she'd had a disagreement.

had you seen the recent rash of threads of “can I be a feminist if....?”. There is a definite theme on the board of wedge driving between feminists right now, and it’s likely that your thread will be read in the context of that.

While this is true I've been reading it mostly as a response to a lot of comments I'd been seeing in other discussions here. Lots of claims, often in passing, almost assumptions, that radical feminism is the only real feminism, putting down of other strands of feminism, putting down people who don't really use the label at all for one reason or another.
It kind of belies the stance (which I agree with) that the labels aren't that important.
And lots of threads recently with some making claims that radical feminism has some pretty extreme views, from a positive perspective. Not entirely accurate claims in my opinion but it makes sense that people are reading and responding to those ideas. I'm not actually positive that goadieness, if it is really happening, is coming from threads like this one, so much as the ones making the claims in the first place.

Yeah but it's that thinking that gets us where we've been where liberal feminism got massively hijacked. I mean we know all this. Like the OP said we're not even allowed to get to first base on defining our politics

Because all these different labels just pit people against each other - and makes it more about yourself than the actual cause you want to support. I’m a feminist - that’s it. I’m a feminist who doesn’t agree with everything other feminists have to say, but I’m still a feminist and respect that they are still feminists too. To me there’s just
something self-absorbed and a bit self-indulgent in spending time over-complicating it just to give yourself a special label.

I think for me the reason the theory and ideology and labels are important to me is all due to one question: how do we end patriarchy?

If your politics doesn't lean towards answering this question then how feminist are you?

Let's be clear: some women don't seem to want patriarchy to end. They're invested in the system, in men, and would rather choose the system and men over women. The thought of ending patriarchy is frightening. What would we do? How would we run things?

For some women, it seems that even thinking about the end of patriarchy is too frightening to contemplate, let alone bringing about a political ideology that would lead to this end.

The responses aren’t personal OP. Lately it seems there is a new thread every other day along the lines “can you really be a feminist if ?”

Could be coincidental or could be astroturfing, either way it’s not to do with your OP personally.

I love being a mum and a feminist, and see no conflict there.

You are a person who is putting way to much thought into finding a ‘label’ for themselves...

I don't see it like that at all. I think the OP wants to better understand the politics of feminism

Well, yes, like a lot of labels recently, the tag itself and the actual views described are often at quite a disconnect. Different schools of thought is a reasonable idea. Lang alluded to her specific view point earlier. But, as has been ably demonstrated, it's currently rather difficult to establish what anyone means by the terms they use.

Lierre Keith did a pretty good YouTube series on the difference between radical and liberal feminism.
She doesn't get into the absolute nitty gritty of radical feminism and the difference factions there, but it's a good overview, and she is interesting to listen to

You are a person who is putting way to much thought into finding a ‘label’ for themselves...

You can discuss ideas and try to understand them without having to identify with them

Of course you can. You can also criticize ideas within feminism, discard ideas that don't fit with your worldview.
I find it very silencing, the idea that we're not allowed to create definitions and labels. Would men get told this while discussing their politics? How do you even know what the politics actually stand for if it's not clearly defined?

It’s all gone to hell in terms of feminism labels.

I do quite a bit of work in the STEM field. As I understand it, supporting women in stem careers is liberal feminism because it’s about getting ahead /thriving within a patriarchal construct rather than radically overhauling the nature of science, tech or engineering.
BUT if I say liberal feminism these days everyone thinks I support sex work and porn 🙄

So personally I have totally given up on the liberal and radical labels.

"It's good to have names for sets of ideas so you can better understand them, and learn about them. This isn't necessarily divisive."

I completely agree. You can discuss ideas and try to understand them without having to identify with them.

itsnotawatercat

You've noticed two. I've seen reams of attempts to wind up and divide here, so I guess I shall have to leave you to discover that joy all by yourself. It's lovely that FWR is once again becoming a place where feminist ideas are explored. I just don't think the framing of those discussions as 'which camp can you be in if you subscribe to such and such a view' is especially productive. You wanted to discuss motherhood within feminism. You started a thread which focused on tribal divisions within feminism. If you wanted the focus to be on motherhood, it wasn't an effective opener.

Sigh. And I posted in good faith, an' all.

Yes for sure, you're right that it's a gateway issue. And women peak at different times so after peaking they then go off and explore other issues. If this pattern is correct we're going to be seeing a lot of interest in other areas of feminism in the years to come

I haven't seen anyone saying you shouldn't be in a heterosexual relationship or be a mother, but that we need to understand that radical feminism is clear that they're inherently harmful to us

Yes radical feminism is clear on this.

That division between mothers/non mothers hasn't been.part of my experience, as my feminism was really grown as the realities of the patriarchy hit me when I realized how I was treated in relation to motherhood and issues surrounding it.

I read the anti natalist ideas with interest, but distance, because it's not really how I've lived.