If I'm a feminist but not radical or liberal, what am I?

There are Facebook groups specifically for mothers who are radical feminist, or radical leaning, but disagree with the radical feminist view of motherhood and heterosexuality being a privilege.

There are also plenty of childfree lesbian radical feminists who disagree with the "mother privilege" and "het privilege" point of view, and who criticize both as patriarchal structures

I fall somewhere in the middle. I think motherhood is not intrinsically patriarchal, but I do think that I should have thought it through more carefully before becoming one

I’m a bad feminist.

@Imnobody4

I haven't watched the video, but I should imagine it's some kind of pernicious antifeminist attempt at belittling women's naming of feminist philosophy.

Best to stay away from anti feminist piss taking of women

I just watched the video. I... I have no words...

There are 11 types of feminism. It's official!

The people saying this call themselves radical feminists, and I don't say anything really as:

1. it's their rad fem space, they've made it clear they don't want to debate what they see as basic principles continuously. Fair enough.

2. I don't have the language, and haven't done the reading to be able to adequately back up my thoughts on this, beyond "well, I think that..." or "in my personal experience... ". Hence, this thread.

What is this Rad Fem space? Is it a forum, workshop, cafe?

Are you saying radical feminism doesn't say that heterosexual relationships and motherhood are damaging to women in a patriarchal society, then?

Put it this way, if it’s a central tenet it’s news to me.

Well, I can't really help on the terms for Facebook group searches. The feminist groups I'm part of are things that have sprung up around specific issues, and I've no real idea if everyone in them agrees with everyone else which is why we tend to have conversations with each other.

Tbh, it functions the same way it does here, except usually without the unwelcome intrusion or centering of blokes, which is a dynamic change I thoroughly recommend. Different views, conversations, argument and discussion.

Where are these radfem spaces denigrating heterosexual relationships and motherhood? Because I’ve been following radfems (on Twitter primarily) for a good couple of years and have never come across anyone with those views.

I'm definitely experiencing radical feminists saying I'm not a radical feminist if I don't believe that all heterosexual relationships are bad news for women by definition, or that motherhood is damaging and best avoided in an ideal world.

Who are these people saying this and what do you reply to them?

Surely if there were no mothers, there wouldn't 'be' a world, or any 'isms' or anyone at all?

My interest in ideological purity also meant that the answer to "how do we end patriarchy?" resulted in me realizing that we can't. It's too far gone and too powerful.

The extremist fringe groups do have this awareness and understanding of this.

All we have available at our disposal is damage limitation. I do think feminist consciousness raising is important for women's well being and our ability to make women's lives more bearable in the here and now.

Not disagreeing with you sakura. As I've repeatedly said, my initial concern was that the OP felt excluded by not having a label for her specific feminist views. I wanted her to know that bottom line, she was included by virtue of wanting to liberate and focus on women.

When in doubt, repeat the mantra;

“Feminism is a political practice of fighting male supremacy in behalf of women as a class, including all the women you don't like, including all the women you don't want to be around, including all the women who used to be your best friends whom you don't want anything to do with anymore.
It doesn't matter who the individual women are. They all have the same vulnerability to rape, to battery, as children to incest. Poorer women have more vulnerability to prostitution, which is basically a form of sexual exploitation that is intolerable in an egalitarian society, which is the society we are fighting for.”
Andrea Dworkin

Feminists as a group centre women, and work towards equality and or liberation.
Radical feminists examine the structure of society and want to make it fit for humans.
Liberal feminists are more concerned with individual choice within the structure.

If its outside of this remit, if it demands you include all people and all their problems, if it centres people who aren't women, if its actively harmful to women or children, if it demands you put the concerns of women second behind anything else, if its driven by or controlled by men,if its highly commercial with no apparent benefit to women, if its yet another version of 'wait until after the revolution and it will all fall into place',

then it very probably isn't feminism.

any old fool knows the phrase 'divide and conquer

This is important, too. This is why it's even more important for us to be brutally clear about what everything stands for. For example we know transactivists shut down dissent with accusations of "white feminism", race being the first category which men have decided should divide women. It's so racist to say feminism is "white", implying that WOC haven't been, or aren't, actively feminist.

But men's divide and conquer tactics are different to women working towards a feminist ideology that resonates with, and works for them.

Well, I resist getting too hung up on labels because of the culture of over-reliance on labels in wokey thinking that has people describing themselves by a myriad of PanCisQueerLibDemiEtc. that doesn't serve to tell you what they actually think, and feeds into tribalism and actually squashes free thought and exploration of ideas.

That doesn't mean I don't think labels have a place, because yes, they can be useful shorthand. But only if they retain the already understood definition and as we've already seen, they are primarily openers in conversation that nearly always have to be unpacked anyway.

Seriously, we talk about language and definitions here all the time. Point is that we are therefore well aware of the pitfalls of labels, as well as the uses. Who can confidently say what 'left' or 'right' is at the moment? What does it mean to be 'progressive' or 'conservative'?

I mean, radical feminism itself needs constant explanation that it doesn't mean 'extreme' feminism, it means feminism that is concerned with the roots of our oppression. So I remain somewhat reticent to coin another term that needs to be unpacked again. I'm getting far too used to just explaining the mechanisms without the shorthand, because I'm mostly talking to people who have very erroneous ideas about feminism in the first place. But that's my current sphere of activity, obviously there's nothing at all wrong with exploring ideas and labels for them. As I think I said in my first post on the thread.

Do other political groups resist naming their philosophies, or is it just us?

No it really is just women who seemingly aren't "allowed" to name their philosophies, political leanings, ideologies and so forth. Like we're just one homogenous group.

Maybe cultural feminism? I don't know much about it.

All feminism and feminists start from a position of recognising that women (some, many or all) are not equal at a social and/or political and/or economic level when compared to men.

A lot of feminists start from that position. Another position is rights and opportunities for women without reference to men at all. That is, without the requirement of men as a comparator. Also without the assumption of disadvantage.