Concerns over housing trans inmates in women's prisons

Sounds like a very tricky conversation. At no point did they consider that they would be better to campaign for a dedicated wing/facility somewhere rather than kick the problem into the women's estate?

It's such an obvious solution, I wonder why that isn't considered acceptable? Are women now expected to validate another person's gender identity as part of their prison sentence?

FernPotts ask your sister what safeguards she is campaigning to have put in place for the female prisoners, a vast percentage of whom will have been a victim of male sexual violence, in order to protect them from the distress of having to share with a male bodied person. Ask her is she knows if the trans prisoner has had their penis and scrotum removed. If she doesn’t know the answer to that, then should vulnerable female prisoners be forced to either share with someone with a penis or would their refusal be seen as bigoted? If their refusal to share with a male bodied person is due to horrific sexual violence and resulting PTSD, whose feelings should be put first?

She’s been part of a campaign team trying to get a MtF prisoner moved to a women’s prison, on the grounds of risk of (or possibly actual) sexual assault in the men’s prison. Apparently the vulnerable prisoners are housed together, but that meant putting this particular poor soul - who isn’t a sex offender - in with some very dodgy characters indeed.

Sounds like a very tricky conversation. At no point did they consider that they would be better to campaign for a dedicated wing/facility somewhere rather than kick the problem into the women's estate?

Green was previously moved from Cornton Vale women's prison for having sex with female inmates to the men's wing at HMP Edinburgh. Then Green was moved to the women's wing at HMP Edinburgh. Where Green promptly had sex with some female inmates again. Moved back to the men's wing. Then moved back again to the women's wing.

Zero lessons learned and zero fucks given regarding vulnerable women.

I had just a sticky conversation with my sister on this. She’s been part of a campaign team trying to get a MtF prisoner moved to a women’s prison, on the grounds of risk of (or possibly actual) sexual assault in the men’s prison. Apparently the vulnerable prisoners are housed together, but that meant putting this particular poor soul - who isn’t a sex offender - in with some very dodgy characters indeed.

DSis was a bit appalled that I still didn’t think the women’s prison was the right option, but looked thoughtful when I said that some women would be naturally anxious if sharing facilities with any male. We agreed that neither place seemed the right answer.

"James Morton, of the Scottish Trans Alliance, worked alongside the Scottish Prison Service (SPS) to develop the policy of housing trans women in female jails. He said there was "loads of discussion" to make sure female prisoners weren't "inadvertently negatively affected".

Not sure if this is the same person but I watched footage from the event at Edinburgh University where the Scottish prison policy regarding trans prisoners was discussed by one of the speakers, she reported that the view of STA was that prisons were the most challenging environment for them to tackle but if they could get transwomen housed in the female estate then negotiating away single sex spaces in schools and hospitals would be easier by comparison. They have a plan!

For me what is most alarming is that self ID IS NOT LAW and yet people who are biologically and legally male are being housed with female prisoners. They do not need to review the policy, they need to fucking stop it until the matter has been legally settled. The Scottish government must have liability if female prisoners are harmed by having male offenders housed with them.

My concern now is that by being seen to review the policy they will try to make any new policy look like a compromise that women should be grateful for, "we listened to your concerns and have taken action". The only acceptable policy is one which prioritises women's safety. If there are concerns about transwomen self harming if housed in the male estate then do something about mental health provision.

Feeling slightly pissed off and fed up with this bullshit today.

"He is lobbying for trans people".

Clearly.

And nobody is lobbying for women. Nobody is allowed to lobby for women.

So who is erased here?

Yes popchyck. How can James Morton be talking about women’s safety in prison
He is lobbying for trans people.

And loads of discussions well.
Is that how policy is made ?

By discussing policy with a lobby group

From the article:

"James Morton, of the Scottish Trans Alliance, worked alongside the Scottish Prison Service (SPS) to develop the policy of housing trans women in female jails. He said there was "loads of discussion" to make sure female prisoners weren't "inadvertently negatively affected".

How is James Morton an expert in the safety of women in the justice system? What are Morton's qualifications in this area? Why are lobby groups even involved in discussions about prison inmates in the first place, far less dictating policy?

None of them have undergone sex reassignment surgery and none have legally changed their gender.

This may no longer be true.

metro.co.uk/2018/11/19/trans-murderer-granted-20000-gender-reassignment-surgery-on-the-nhs-8156185/

This article states that Peter Laing now Paris Green was about to have reassignment surgery in November last year. Of course that could have been facial feminisation surgery and breast implants, leaving the genitals untouched.

So, it could be correct that no male prisoner has had his genitals removed, but that other surgeries have been done.

Paris Green, formerly Peter Laing, murdered Robert Shankland, 45, who was sexually assaulted before being battered to death in Green’s flat.

Green has been moved between the male and female estates since incarceration.

Green was previously moved from Cornton Vale women's prison for having sex with female inmates to the men's wing at HMP Edinburgh. Then Green was moved to the women's wing at HMP Edinburgh. Where Green promptly had sex with some female inmates again. Moved back to the men's wing. Then moved back again to the women's wing.

They did mention on the news that the trans prisoners hadn’t had surgery.

Bbc never covered this at all

Fair Play for Women have done a lot of work on the effect of trans women in women's prisons.

I wish these articles would make it clear that a "trans woman" is male. Some people don't know this as the words "trans woman" are, I think, very misleading.

This is awful. How on earth did this policy get put in place to start with. Just ridiculous.

I know Julie Bindel has done a lot of work for female prisoners in the past, if anyone knows if she or anyone else is campaigning on this issue, please share. I’d like to donate if they’re taking donations.

It should never have been implemented in the first place and now we are supposed to be grateful they are reconsidering

How there is even money to pander to this when women in custody have reported being deprived of basics such as san pro I dont know.

These days I think.the more dangerous criminals are the wrong side of the bars...

What can I say but thank God for that. Why does it take them so long?