Concerns over housing trans inmates in women's prisons

So, basically, we - the taxpayers - are paying our Government to dismantle our rights.

This is what is particularly galling about the whole thing and a big part of why they must be held responsible.

Line from the academic paper mentioned above:

For example, in 2017/18 the Equality Network (2018: 19) received 92% of its total income from the Scottish Government.

The Scottish Trans Alliance is part of the Equality Network.

So, basically, we - the taxpayers - are paying our Government to dismantle our rights.

Half a million a year, I believe, Dog. Or not far off it.

Imagine what rape crisis could achieve with some of that.

Do trans alliance get funded by Scottish government ?

This stinks. Really stinks

So Morton wrote the equality assement report and the policy report

How does that work. Why James Morton ?

Gordon pike convicted of possessing child sexual abuse images consulted 🤦‍♀️

Again why was James Morton consulted. It’s women’s prisons.

Why did he as a lobbyist get to write a policy and he incorrectly used the equality act.

Why would he do this ? And why did our goverment and civil servants not check this

This is terrible. If these poor women bring a case against the Scottish govt I would be so happy to support.

I 've lost track of where I read this, but I recall some report saying that some male prisoners identifying as women were accepted by their coprisoners and doing well in women's prisons.

Yeah, politicians and doctors and Professors are scared to speak out but women in prison are fine with it.

And the men would be all fine wouldn't they!

Gordon Pike is on the list of people consulted.
James Morton is an interesting character. Very well connected. Bright.

Unusually misogynistic for someone who shares the same biology as me.

I've lost track of where I read this, but I recall some report saying that some male prisoners identifying as women were accepted by their coprisoners and doing well in women's prisons.

I thought then about the experiences of women who go to prison. Their high rates of abusive relationships of all types. It seems really likely that plonking a few criminal men into a women's prison will result in women being drawn into further abusive relationships. But who gives a crap about that, hey.

So essentially, if these men haven’t legally changed their gender or had sex reassignment surgery, it’s comparable to taking any bog standard male prisoner and plopping him down in the female estate. Well that wouldn’t be allowed, would it.
Those poor women. I’d happily contribute to a crowdfund if any of them want to bring a test case against the Scottish Prison Service.

It's disgusting that putting men in women's prisons ever happened in the first place. Whether it was through incompetence or malice or both I'm not sure.

It's horrific that no thought was given to the impact on the female estate and quite unbelievable that it occurred to no one that it would be harmful. The only explanation that really fits is that they just don't care about women.

Susan's Sinclair's assessment.

scottish-women.com/2019/01/11/prison-information-sheet/

The Scottish Prison Service policy document was written by James Morton, of Scottish Trans Alliance.

The Equality Impact Assessment (written by Morton) not only incorrectly names the protected characteristics, (gender and gender identity are NOT in the Equality Act 2010), it doesn’t even consider that WOMEN are affected by this.

The groups that Morton states that Morton consulted include trans people in prison and the community, Stonewall Scotland, Scottish Trans Alliance, and Trade Union (of more later).

No women’s groups, including female prison officers and female prisoners, were consulted.

Have a look at the Annex document, under the section: Who else is involved in the Equality Impact Assessment?

Gordon Pike is on the list of people consulted.

Gordon Pike was a senior SPS official and the trade union side secretary who has since been convicted of possessing over 22, 000 images of child sexual abuse.

The STV report cited the article we had published in Scottish Affairs last week: www.euppublishing.com/doi/full/10.3366/scot.2019.0284

If you want to read the equality impact assessment done of the Scottish Prison Service's policy that we obtained via an FOI request, there should be a link in the footnotes.

And yes, one of the authors (Lucy Hunter Blackburn), also spoke about this work in her speech at the Edinburgh University event on 5 June:

We were very pleased to see STV pick up this story.

There is also the curious case of why Paris Green is housed in the female estate, a person convicted of a vicious murder/torture and known to be, at best, a sexual nuisance to the vulnerable women Paris is housed with...and Tiffany Scott, who is, by all accounts a violent person but not, AFAIK, convicted of murder or sex crimes. Tiffany used be called Mighty Almighty, and also Obie Wan Kenobie - and is reported in the red top press as "Scotlands most dangerous criminal"

Why is Paris in the female estate, as the system says is only appropriate - but, Tiffany is not?

What happened to acceptance without exception, especially as Tiffany is, doubtless, difficult to manage - but, not a large, predatory, violent person, like Paris.

Seems odd

Agree prison reform needed

Agree many men at risk in male estate

Agree solution is not to put them in with the women

I read a harrowing article recently about a young man who was sexually abused in prison and killed himself. This needs addressing. Urgently.

Prison reform Trust are good.

Men should not be in prison with women.

And why in all this does no one ever mention risk of pregnancy? Whether through consensual sex or rape? Surely no one, grin woolly lefty to string em up right winger wants women being impregnated while incarcerated.

Scotland was where someone got hold of equalities impact assessment of putting transwomen in womens prisons.

Was handwritten doc next to protected characteristic of sex the writing simply said n/a

I wonder how many men who are vulnerable might themselves potential aggressors to other vulnerable men?

Well yes. I imagine the whole situation is an explosive cocktail of hierarchical issues.

Deciding to shove it all into the female estate is just barbaric, though (and yes I'm sure the same hierarchical issues happen in the female prison, but it's the whole fox and henhouse scenario).

Effeminate men, gay men, old men, men with mental health issues. Men who, themselves, don't constitute a significant threat, but would still be inappropriate in the female estate, where the fact they are male is the threat.

I wonder how many men who are vulnerable might themselves potential aggressors to other vulnerable men?

We definitely need an overall reform of the criminal justice system. And we need workable systems - not amendments for individuals as in this case that solve nothing and don't prompt an overall solution.

And just in terms of numbers, there are about 7, 800 men in prison in Scotland.

Only 15 of them identify as transgender, according to the prison service.

That makes them about 0.2% of the male prison population.

But a recent report of England and Wales (by HM Chief Inspetor of Prisons), puts the number of prisoners identifying as 2%.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7287343/PAUL-BRACCHI-1-50-inmates-male-prisons-claim-transgender.html

My feeling is that the Scottish Prison Service is deliberately trying to conceal the issues and only using the word "transgender" to describe a very small subset of prisoners who identify as transgender.

Shame we don't have a decent press in this country who would investigate this.

Datun

Littlehay, (England not Scotland) is around 80% sex offenders(paedophiles) and the other 20% vulnerable prisoners. I dont imagine a risk assessment would find an adult TW to be at much risk there or somewhere similar, a TW is unlikely to be their taste in the same respect a female guard would not be to their taste either.

I've just had a thought about this:

There are 15 trans women inside Scotland's jails - around half of which are housed in female prisons. None of them have undergone sex reassignment surgery and none have legally changed their gender.

But what do they mean by transgender in this context?

Reading it back, it seems to mean only those men who have not changed their names by deed poll or men who do not have a GRC.

That leaves all the other men who have changed their names legally or who have a GRC defined as "not transgender" by the prison service's definition.

So Peter Laing/Paris Green (murderer) is now female according to the prison service and not trangender.

Daniel/Sophie Eastwood (who murdered a male cell-mate in prison, and known as the Hanibal Lecter killer by the tabloids, before being moved to a women's prison) is now female according to the prison service. And is not transgender.

Alex Stewart/Alan Baker (who murdered a man) is now female.

And so it goes.

We’ll keep talking. As far as I can see she’d only thought of it from the viewpoint of the transwoman, who she’s only ever known under a female name.

I meant to say, this is all about validation, isn't it. Otherwise all the vulnerable prisoners I mentioned above, would go to the female estate.

There must be loads of vulnerable prisoners, who aren't attacked for being paedophiles or sex offenders, though.

Effeminate men, gay men, old men, men with mental health issues. Men who, themselves, don't constitute a significant threat, but would still be inappropriate in the female estate, where the fact they are male is the threat.

No one wants to see someone being attacked in prison, male or female. But the solution isn't to sacrifice women's privacy, peace of mind and safety.

I realise there may not be that many transwomen specifically, but surely, they are hundreds of vulnerable male prisoners, who themselves do not constitute a risk to other male prisoners.