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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Telegraph column - not even attempting to hide AGP

336 replies

BretonDinosaur · 02/08/2019 19:08

It’s behind a paywall, will post screenshots in next post

David Thomas is a 60 year old man, who according to his Telegraph column is still living as a man whatever that means. He is transitioning and he is writing about it in his weekly column. In the past he gave us Not Guilty: The Case in Defence of Men which is described as a rebuttal of feminist charges against men. So I think he’s established his misogyny credentials, which raises the question of why he wants to transition to emulate womanhood?

It’s so clear from the above article that it’s sexual arousal. He talks about his growing breasts in a clearly lascivious way. It’s not even gently disguised or denied. The AGP is front and centre in the article.

Yet we’re still not allowed to discuss it. We’re not allowed to point out that many men get off on the idea of being seen as a woman. They talk about it openly but the activists who seek to remove women’s rights shout us down as bigots for daring to raise it.

Those who are still championing the be nice/what harm can it do still seem to deny that it’s a driver. How? When it is this blatant how can it not be openly discussed and the risks/behaviours openly managed or challenged.

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FormerMediocreMale · 02/08/2019 23:17

What is the turning point from creepy old man to stunning and brave? Who gatekeeps? We as women are told not to question who is in our spaces, so who does get to question it? Acceptance without exception Hmm

LangCleg · 02/08/2019 23:16

I'm still shocked at the comparison to a pre-teen girl's body. A middle aged man comparing himself to a child FFS in the mainstream press.

I wonder if that would get a red flag in a safeguarding assessment? Hmm... tough one.

LauraMipsum · 02/08/2019 23:15

I've not read David Thomas's MRA book "In Defence Of Men" but fortunately someone else did so we don't have to: www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/book-review-now-who-started-it-she-did-not-guilty-in-defence-of-the-modern-man-by-david-thomas-1471605.html

[The context in 1993 for anyone who doesn't know was that men were losing their shit about feminists "infiltrating" the establishment and warping the minds of law makers to persuade them to make marital rape illegal, this is the context this book was written in]

This part of the review particularly stood out as being prescient:

He writes as though 'male' automatically equals 'masculine', as though differences between the sexes are God-given and natural, not socially constructed. Differences between women don't get a look in. Nor do differences to do with class and race.

After criticising women for not fancying men who want to wear frocks (well, it took a while for men to come round to the idea of women wearing trousers - a few hundred years or so), and after suggesting that masculinity is culturally imposed on men, Thomas urges us not to forget the positive values associated with masculinity: 'It is possible to be strong without being oppressive. It is possible to be assertive without being domineering. And it is possible to possess energy, determination and even aggression without being violent or bullying.' Yes, but the qualities spoken of here can be associated with women just as much as with men.

Datun · 02/08/2019 23:15

the media giving them a platform because there famous not because they have any idea what the fk they are talking about then everyone thinks that how it must be because someone famous told us it was

Is he famous? I've never heard of him.

As to the rest. I'm afraid I disagree. He knows exactly what he's talking about. He likes taking hormones to grow male breast tissue, which he enjoys comparing to that of a pre pubescent girl.

It's a process and experience that an overwhelming number of transwomen go through. And he's an expert now. If you haven't done that, I don't know how you can say he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about?

Because he's the authority, not you.

LangCleg · 02/08/2019 23:15

I'd like to know at what point and how David's risk profile changes and he goes from being a (I think we all here agree, creepy) man discussing his breast growth in the same breath as discussing girls puberty, to identifying as a woman and having access to spaces where those girls may be in a state of undress.

Me too.

Bespin · 02/08/2019 23:09

SpartacusAutisticus

me too, I'm waiting to see if they do change there pronouns to she and her, maybe they will and suprise us all.

Cascade220 · 02/08/2019 23:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FormerMediocreMale · 02/08/2019 23:02

The Telegraph is centre right/conservative publication with more male than female readers. I wonder how many of those readers are dads of teenage girls? I wonder what they think reading this article and that David can share changing rooms with their daughters.

Bespin · 02/08/2019 23:00

you really don't want to be down a rabbit hole with a semi erect penis. lol

Doyoumind · 02/08/2019 22:57

I wasn't even down a rabbit hole. It was a thread Glinner had retweeted. Must be more cautious in future.

Cascade220 · 02/08/2019 22:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bespin · 02/08/2019 22:56

Richard o Brian took hormones for years, I beleive settled on some other gender in the end when asked.

but it's ok to talk about someones semi erect penis got it who doesn't like that 😉

BretonDinosaur · 02/08/2019 22:55

Oh boak, Doyoumind

Yet we’re still not supposed to talk about the arousal that AGPs feel at acting out womanhood.

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pombear · 02/08/2019 22:54

Muststopfaffing

Have the courage of your convictions and own it, or get the fuck out of the way while the rest of us try and sort this mess out.

That deserves a Mumsnet 'I salute your comment' emoji, if only there was one. here, have a Glitterball instead!

Cascade220 · 02/08/2019 22:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NottonightJosepheen · 02/08/2019 22:53

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BretonDinosaur · 02/08/2019 22:53

Thanks Lang I’d also be pleased to continue to focus on David’s anatomy and his response to the changes he’s making to it.

What random meetings with Z list celebrities have to do with it are beyond me. I mean, I could talk about the time I met Jeffrey, Bungle, Zippy and George and it would be a very fun story. But we want to talk about AGP.

Maybe I should write to the editor and thank him for facilitating the conversation.

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Doyoumind · 02/08/2019 22:51

This is only vaguely related to this thread but I have to post somewhere as I feel even more yuck than when I read that column.

I just stumbled across someone on Twitter who claimed to be a feminist. Thought by the profile pic it seemed a bit off so went to look at their bio to find they are 'trans non binary'. Pinned tweet is his semi erect dick in a pair of bright pink knickers 🤮

Bespin · 02/08/2019 22:50

SpartacusAutisticus

as you explained it I would accommodate your need to do that. I often have to do that in my work I am not apposed to anyone who can not use the correct pronoun when it is not a choose or don't have understanding of such. what I have a issue with is people who can choose to do so and don't because reasons.

LangCleg · 02/08/2019 22:49

change the discussion here from the clear AGP shown by David to his unlikeable personality.

I, for one, am quite happy to continue to focus on David's anatomy and his, er, response, regarding the medicalisation of it. This does not include agreeing that David is developing breasts that are in any way similar to women's breasts.

Muststopfaffing · 02/08/2019 22:48

David Thomas, much like JY and others, is the logical end point of self ID and acceptance without exception. Those that have championed that viewpoint, whether they like it or not, cannot disown David or anyone else. David identifies as trans, therefore he is. There is no debate to be had. You said it was about individual identity. This is it. Have the courage of your convictions and own it, or get the fuck out of the way while the rest of us try and sort this mess out.

Cascade220 · 02/08/2019 22:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LangCleg · 02/08/2019 22:47

Dear David

Yours isn't the one on the left.

Best wishes

Lang

Telegraph column - not even attempting to hide AGP
Bespin · 02/08/2019 22:46

Some men are like that see Richard o Brian. meet him once he was a knob too totally up his own arse.

LangCleg · 02/08/2019 22:45

Dear David

This is an actual boob. You don't have one, let alone two.

Best wishes

Lang