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Original poster

To those who visit the board and believe in gender identity, what is your solution?

442 replies

Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 13:21

I've been on Twitter again and seen another interesting thread but I'm not going to post it here so it can be picked apart.

Instead, although I know it's been asked before, to those of you who believe someone can be a woman without biologically being one I ask the question: What do you think should be put in place in law to provide safe spaces for trans people and women and what are you doing about it?

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ArnoldWhatshisknickers · 01/08/2019 14:22

It's like Brexit in a way - people frame the negative consequences as scaremongering until reality bites. Change only really happens when people's lives are negatively impacted en masse - that hasn't happened, yet.

Hmm, negative aspects of Brexit have already hit. We're all 20% poorer due to the devaluation of the pound for a start. I certainly notice that being at the bottom end of the income scale. I also notice Brexit supporters blame it on everything and anything other than Brexit.

I suspect TWAW supporters will find similar ways to deflect the myriad negative consequences of their belief.

Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 14:18

Here's the MN thread. No problem sharing it at all.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3651924-This-is-a-good-thread-about-female-trans-allies

I just didn't share it because there's 1000 posts to trawl through.

Within that thread there were some posters criticising the GC position without clarifying what their position was.

The thread got to 1000 posts because a chunk of it was spent picking apart what posters had said without stating a clear opinion or solution.

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LonginesPrime · 01/08/2019 14:17

Thanks Navigator.

LittleAndOften · 01/08/2019 14:14

I think that most people won't see there being an issue until it personally affects them ie if they find themselves sharing swimming pool changing rooms with male bodied people, or find them in their women-only exercise group and feel compromised.

The issues with prisons and rape crisis centres are easy to dismiss as most people won't experience them.

It's like Brexit in a way - people frame the negative consequences as scaremongering until reality bites. Change only really happens when people's lives are negatively impacted en masse - that hasn't happened, yet.

TheNavigator · 01/08/2019 14:14

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3651924-This-is-a-good-thread-about-female-trans-allies?msgid=88981199 is the thread being referred to. I don't usually frequent FWR as I am not on board with prevailing orthodoxy, but joined in at the end of this thread and I am happy to share my views. I know most on FWR don't agree with them.

LonginesPrime · 01/08/2019 14:08

As you were on the thread, Navigator, you know the kind of views I'm referring to.

Without posting the Twitter thread, this is feeling a bit like a private conversation between a few people in the know - why expect genuine engagement about a thread that you're not prepared to share?

Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 14:07

I'm not missing the point.

I know very well what most people on the trans side of the debate believe.

I'm trying to understand the views of specific posters who hold the view both that TW are and are not women. You don't need to tell me that doesn't make sense because I know it.

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Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 14:04

As you were on the thread, Navigator, you know the kind of views I'm referring to.

I have no problem whatsoever with someone 'living as a woman'. Go ahead. Knock yourself out but, as you say, self ID is the issue.

My question was about what to do wrt self ID, GRA if we have to think about those people's feelings when that could potentially open the door to female spaces for anyone who claims to be a woman in good faith or otherwise.

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LonginesPrime · 01/08/2019 14:03

OP, I feel you're missing the point slightly - the people who believe that TWAW don't think there is a problem to be solved in terms of the practicalities as they believe that TWAW and therefore should be treated like women in every respect.

They don't believe there is a practical issue to be solved - they believe there is a transphobia issue to be solved.

Biancadelrioisback · 01/08/2019 13:59

Tbf, you probably won't get a lot of engagement here because your post comes across like you would just dismiss their POV anyways.

TheNavigator · 01/08/2019 13:57

I don't understand why someone born male would wish to live their lives presenting as a woman - or vice versa. But I don't have to understand it. I don't understand a lot of things people do, but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to do them. Some people feel an imperative to live their lives as the opposite sex as the best way for them to have a chance of a happy life. I am not 'doing anything about it' except not being bothered by it. I don't support self ID or hormones or surgery for children, but as far as I am concerned anyone over the age of 18 can crack on and live their life in the way that feels right to them.

Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 13:55

Me too Likeothers. I don't genuinely expect them to engage though.

It's just I started a thread to discuss something that appeared in Twitter and they were very keen to come along and have their say on that thread. Instead of starting another thread about a Twitter thread I thought I would test whether they were open to sharing their own opinion rather than putting down someone else's.

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LikeothersIamjustme · 01/08/2019 13:50

If they arrive I would appreciate them describing 'woman feeling' as it makes no sense to me. I am a woman. I feel like me. Because I am me.

Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 13:42

Woman is a descriptor of biological sex to me.

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Original poster
Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 13:41

There are some posters who believe TWANbiologicalW but also that woman is a feeling. They are the ones I was addressing. I'm not clear on what their solution is.

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LikeothersIamjustme · 01/08/2019 13:38

OP - What is a woman if not a descriptor of biological sex?
Genuinely interested.

WhoIsTheFairestOfThemAll · 01/08/2019 13:37

They 'believe' that TWAW and so they are catered for within existing female provision.

They believe women are wrong for contesting this.

That is their bottom line.