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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

To those who visit the board and believe in gender identity, what is your solution?

442 replies

Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 13:21

I've been on Twitter again and seen another interesting thread but I'm not going to post it here so it can be picked apart.

Instead, although I know it's been asked before, to those of you who believe someone can be a woman without biologically being one I ask the question: What do you think should be put in place in law to provide safe spaces for trans people and women and what are you doing about it?

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Witchlight · 01/08/2019 18:54

I think it is a game of equality top-trumps gone wrong.

Eg If on a train a disabled person gets on, they have priority to the disabled seats. It doesn’t matter if someone with another protected characteristic thinks their feet hurt more than the disabled person. For a disabled seat, the disabled person trumps all.

If there is a scholarship based on someone’s race, they get the funding ahead of anyone else - even if they need it less.

If there is a space, segregated by sex for the use of males, or females, then trans people cannot use it, unless they qualify as the same biological sex. For all other purposes trans people can be treated as the sex they ID with - just not in the case where sex it the main consideration.

The problem is that we have the equivalent of a trans person with sore feet, insisting that they get to use the disabled seat, because they feel they need it more.

Cloudyz7 · 01/08/2019 18:53

As someone who doesn't have an 'inner essence' I think that those who feel they have a 'gender identity' are those who are willing to accept and/or like the stereotypes associated with their sex. (Trans people preferring the stereotypes of the opposite sex obviously).

If you don't conform and/or reject those stereotypes, then your sense of self is based on your biological reality + personality.

DickKerrLadies · 01/08/2019 18:53

What difference does it make if I provide a comprehensive guide to you about what living as a woman is like (notwithstanding that you already know exactly what it is). How do you see that information resolving this issue for you?

Well, as I mentioned up thread, if being a woman is not about biology, then I am not a woman so I must be trans.

So, how can I now live and present as a man?

bd67th · 01/08/2019 18:52

If someone is behaving in a pervy manner in a toilet or changing room of course you can get them removed

Assuming that you are an adult, you recognise the pervyness before it's too late, and there's someone in authority nearby to do the removing. Seriously, do all the public loos you use have an attendant present? The ones I frequent don't.

I was sexually-assaulted at school aged EIGHT, because two older boys waltzed in to the mixed changing room and I did not realise that they meant me harm until they had cornered me and it was far too late to escape or scream. You have to remember that CHILDREN also use toilets and changing rooms and may not have parents with them (e.g. at school). Children also need simple rules to follow to protect themselves, such as "if you see a man or teen boy(1) in the toilet, scream and run". This is in direct opposition to Stonewall/UWE/etc advice of "if you think someone's in the wrong loo, relax, they know better than you do".

This isn't a "moral panic", it's a reasoned fear that comes from recognising that males use their penises as weapons against females and force us to risk pregnancy. This is looking at Yaniv and Jess Bradley and Karen White and asking "how is an eight-year-old meant to know the difference between those predators and Rose of Dawn or Miranda Yardley or Seven Hex?" (the last two of whom have asked themselves similar questions and stopped using women's facilities Star Flowers Smile). This is accepting that there is a risk associated with letting unvetted male-bodied people into female spaces, asking "how many girls do we allow to be harmed as collateral damage for transwomen's validation?", and concluding that the only acceptable answer is zero.

I've concluded just now that "moral panic" is one of those "thought-terminating cliche" things we talked about last year, with the purpose of silencing a very specific target group, namely women concerned about safeguarding. It does this by the mechanism of shaming the target through the slurs of social conservatism in the word "moral", so very effective against social liberals as many gender non-conforming women are, and irrationality in the word "panic", so very effective against women, who know the root meaning of "hysteria" and are sick of being branded irrational.

We should always question the motives of those who would shame us and silence us for being concerned about safeguarding.

(1) I'm all in favour of boys under eightish using the ladies if they aren't with their dads. They are too small to threaten us and are at risk from men if they use the gents.

TheNavigator · 01/08/2019 18:52

I guess for trans people (and I am guessing because I don't know) it is about how they present and are perceived. Does it matter? Some people feel that they wish to live as if they were a member of the opposite sex and I have no problem with that. I don't have to define or dissect or demand because I am happy to accept that is how some people feel. I don't see why people feeling different to you is so difficult for some posters to grasp that they want the minutae of what that feeling is exactly. Feelings can't be defined exactly - poets, novelists and philosphers try but the best we have is mataphors.

Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 18:51

Do you use Twitter Roses?

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RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 18:51

What difference does it make if I provide a comprehensive guide to you about what living as a woman is like (notwithstanding that you already know exactly what it is). How do you see that information resolving this issue for you?

Exactly

TheBigBallOfOil · 01/08/2019 18:51

I really don’t know what you’re up to, matey. And I’m not convinced you do either.
Chromosomes work pretty well. I don’t think you’re improving on them, put it that way.

DickKerrLadies · 01/08/2019 18:51

There are born women who haven’t done any of those things but still feel they are women.

But men will never do them.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 18:50

Xx chromosomes. See how easy that was

Erm, yes, but where exactly have I dismissed biology?
Haven't, have I?

Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 18:50
  • Big Grin
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DickKerrLadies · 01/08/2019 18:50

Now people are disingenuously claiming that they don't know the difference between men and women. It's all just obfuscation

Yep, I'm just like whatever now

Confused I thought it was really complicated Roses?

Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 18:49

No Bag, not the chromosomes Shock Now we'll be on to DSDs.

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Apollo440 · 01/08/2019 18:47

RosesAndRaindrops

How do you describe a feeling
Because it's not a feeling, it's the essence of me
..........
It can't be explained.
Doesn't mean it's not real though
_
And you expect that to be legislated in law? With criminal sanction against those who don't share this personal reality?

How about sticking with things that can actually be defined in reality.

Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 18:47

Field - that's why I said it was my experience. I would say there's a tiny proportion of women who haven't experienced at least one of them though.

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TheBigBallOfOil · 01/08/2019 18:46

Xx chromosomes.
See how easy that was. You can put the essences back in the cupboard.

PetrolBastard · 01/08/2019 18:46

What difference does it make if I provide a comprehensive guide to you about what living as a woman is like (notwithstanding that you already know exactly what it is). How do you see that information resolving this issue for you?

Fieldofgreycorn · 01/08/2019 18:44

I am very clear on what has made me feel like a woman: having periods, having boobs, having sex, being pregnant, giving birth, breastfeeding, employment issues due to being pregnant or being a mother, discrimination based on my sex, men grabbing at my body,

There are born women who haven’t done any of those things but still feel they are women.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 18:44

But yes, I think the way you describe it is utterly daft.

Ooops, sorry then.
Maybe someone else either biologically female or trans (don't be shy, even happens to me on here too lol) have a go at trying to explain it?
See if your explanation is less daft than mine

Doyoumind · 01/08/2019 18:43

The point was to identify if a solution to the current issues could be provided.

I gave my conclusion upthread.

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RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 18:42

Oh your sacred experience!

Er..... people wanted my experience? So I gave it.
Did I say it was sacred?
Wotcha talking about now lol

TheBigBallOfOil · 01/08/2019 18:40

Oh your sacred experience! Yes, terribly important. But yes, I think the way you describe it is utterly daft. And I’m allowed to.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 18:40

What is the point of this thread, exactly?
As someone said upthread, nobody really wants anyone to try and explain.
You have a discussion about it and some can't help doing the wheee roundabout lolz again and it all starts up again halfway through the thread when someone will pretend nobody has answered and they are all ears, honest guv! Until some other "daft" sod gets suckered into answering and they start up again
Grin

OldCrone · 01/08/2019 18:38

Now people are disingenuously claiming that they don't know the difference between men and women. It's all just obfuscation. You know what the difference is. We know what the difference is.

Of course we do. But we're still waiting for you to tell us how living as a woman is different from living as a man. Apart from biological stuff.

RosesAndRaindrops · 01/08/2019 18:38

Explain
Define
Explain
No not like that
What's a Woman Tho?

See? Just as I said upthread.

Script like

So my experiences are just daftness
Ah well, good to know

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